howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
13 January 2009
20:2312747sid
the comments about sol cambell were homophobic rather than racial.
incidentally, i was actually more offended by the princes dad today about his chum "sooty".
his polo playing friend said that it had meant he was accepted into the establishment.
what if the asian chap had affectionately referred to our future monarch as "big conk"?
Unregistered User
13 January 2009
20:3912750A very good friend of mine a Sri Lankan GP -now retired- referred to himself as Sooty to his patients in Deal. They loved him.
This debate is getting out of proportion.
Watty
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
13 January 2009
20:4012751Not into all this pc stuff, common sense and decency should be enough to stop people being racially abused. The p word and other's like it are offensive in any context. In my opinion people who use these offensive words are just exposing their level of intelligence and decency.
Thanks DT1 not listened to Desmond for ages, listening to my one step beyond. cd
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
13 January 2009
20:5212754well if sooty is playing polo with prince charles im just wondering if sweep and sue are there to?
Guest 641- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 2,335
13 January 2009
21:1012756Before this gets completely out of hand, doesen't anybody remember the age old but apt saying:
'Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me'?
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
13 January 2009
21:1412757yes,but not for ages.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
13 January 2009
21:1912758was it your polo club where this happened barry?
i know that you have the ear of the buck house people.
not a word to anyone though.
13 January 2009
21:2412759Names can kill. I referred earlier to the young learning disabled lad beaten to death by his "friends" who used those names and de-humanised him by doing so making it easier to abuse him. The names we call people trivialise them and reduce their humanity, making it easier to objectify them. Interestingly, Barry, I was listening to a BBC Asian prog shortly after the Pword incident and there was considerable smart debate about reclaiming the word, in the same way Dyke and Queer have been reclaimed and thereby reduced their power to hurt. Somehow, though, the idea didn't take, as the word had been used so much as a weapon that it was felt too sensitive yet - perhaps in the next generation. And you are right, up to a point, about context, in the same way a Jew can tell Jewish jokes in a self-deprecating way and so on. There is a Pakistani designer whose label is PAK1 - he feels ok with it, some Pakistanis, usually the older ones who have suffered more of the horrible abuse than the younger ones (mercifully), do not feel comfortable with it. But it is for them to decide, not others. Whites have no place deciding what is and isn't offensive for non-whites.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
13 January 2009
21:3012761it works both ways bern.
13 January 2009
21:3512765Not if the balance is unequal!! Someone with fewer rights or someone who is oppressed cannot overpower the dominant group. However, again I know where you are coming from. There are always people, of every race, class, age, etc etc, who will milk a system. That doesn't mean the system is wrong, it means it needs better safeguards.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
14 January 2009
09:3412784I've not poked my nose in this thread because I felt/feel it is a pointless one, but racism is not just about words, but about attitude and it is obvious or should be, to everyone that this is the case.
To Harry (and everyone else), the use of "paki" is no different to "aussie".
Paki is short for Pakistani and Aussie is just short for Australian - why not leave it at that ?
Sooty will only be an insult (or racist) to the person receiving it, if they feel it is.
Close the thread, it's now gone OTT.
Roger
14 January 2009
22:2512821It is when people forget abuse and hatred that historuy repeats itself - that is why we make sure the Holocaust is remembered. I don't advocate the constant stirring up of hatred or dwelling on it, but we do need to remember where things came from, remember how people suffered and why, in order to avoid it happening again. You are right, obviously, that some people use words differently, but nevertheless, if the word has been used aggressively, we should acknowledge that and remember it so that it doesn't happen again. There is nothing OTT about racial abuse. Many many people have died because they were the wrong colour or religion, or group, or class, or whatever. Oh so recently Rosa Parks refused to give up her seat on a bus and we were made very aware of something that should be remembered so we don't make the same mistakes again.
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,696
14 January 2009
22:4912824Unless you have been on the receiving end of these types of insults it really is nigh on impossible for you to understand the damage these "little words" cause.
It really is about how these words are perceived by the person they are aimed at and those around them and little or nothing to do with the intention of the speaker.
As Bern has said these words have a history and a associated connotations that are about separating people out from the crowd, emphasising difference and "keeping them in their place"; whether it is ethnic origin, gender, sexuality, skin colour or religion.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
15 January 2009
00:1212837O. K. I give up - carry on; I've said my piece.
Roger
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
15 January 2009
06:4412843Well before I rush off I must post this...
I am off to London for a business conference and awards dinner that I attend every year.
No doubt I will reacquaint myself with two people I met in previous years.
Ginge - an ex Para sergeant who has kept his army nickname and yes he has ginger hair though with a touch of grey now.
and
Sandy - his parents fled Iraq 30 years ago when he was a child. Sandy is not his name but a nickname because of his Arab origins.
They introduced themselves to me this way, emphasising their differences, Ross.
No doubt when we are not discussing business issues conversation will turn to this matter and if last year is anything to go by considerable bile and whole bucket loads of contempt will be directed at the pc brigade. So if anyone of the forum finds their ears buring at some point in the next 24 hours....
Really, you know Ross. It is not those who are given such nicknames (which are all about emphasising difference) who usually object but others (the Sooty case emphasises that so clearly). Berns references to history and connotations should be left to theoretical discussions among academics in a university and not introduced to real life.
In fact it seems to me that everyone who has got so up tight about Harry and Sooty should simpy do that, get a life. But then some, like an certain idiot Leicester MP, have a vested interest in claiming rascism and abuse where it does not really exist.
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,696
15 January 2009
07:4212844As I said Barry unless you have experienced it you will never understand it and you as a white heterosexual male in employment of middle class and middle years will not have experienced it.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
15 January 2009
08:5112845So !!! Can I get clarification here????
Are some of you saying that my child being referred to as "Paki" because her father is of Sikh origin, but born and raised in the uk should in the words of some
"Get a life" because she finds it hurtful and upsetting to be called it, when she isn't from Pakistan at all??
Someone please tell me, because if that is what is being said and incinuated in some postings then quite frankly I know who really needs to "get a life"
To watch her come home heartbroken is not funny trust me
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
15 January 2009
09:2612849well its clear that these comments have caused upset, and OK everyone is entitled to an opinion.
But like MANDIE says with one of her children being called paki some posters are actually saying it doesn't matter.
well it does!!!
Like BERN says it can go on to bullying or worse make the person feel so bad they take the suicide route.
So theres lots more involved in these Idle comments ans should look to see i people may be offended.
I think from a local point of view MANDIE realy hits the nal on the head for me.
Think before you speak
15 January 2009
09:2712850i can only agree.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
15 January 2009
10:3712856And I agree Mandie - but it re-inforces what i said; it's how it's said and the intent.
Roger