howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
not always a problem caused by our muslim friends.
caledonian macbrayne have announced that they will finally run a sunday ferry service between mainland scotland and stornoway on the isle of lewis.
the local authority and lords day observance society have always fought against this.
clearly the majority on the island want sunday kept purely for christian worship.
does this give them the right to stop others from travelling?
Democracy at work: vote, and the majority voice rules.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
not in this case bern.
the minority are getting their way, the way i see it, the argument is all about whether the majority should tell a minority what they should be doing.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
HOWARD
How have you come to the conclusion its majority?
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
opinion polls on the island have always been in favour of continuing the ban keith.
the local council also still supports the ban.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
Would it be fair to say howard if the local population on the island and council dont want it that maybe people power should survive.
or should we AS outsiders force it on them against there will?
It sounds like the majority want Christian worship on Sundays and something else is being imposed on them. Not democracy. Not fair. not respectful. But it is commercial and sadly in a capitalist society that will triumph.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i think that this thread has gone off at a tangent.
why does it hurt practicing christians, that others want to take a ferry ride on a sunday?
the isle of lewis is in scotland, part of the united kingdom, surely freedom of movement comes into play.?
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
Again posting again so soon.
It along story but in the 1960s i was training on the Isle of Lewis in the Army, we were about to come home and I was told that the R.A.F. MED/Orderly was taken to the main land ill and i was to replace him at the E/warning R.A.F.Station on the Isle, till a replacment came.
So I was up there for some time.And on a Sunday the only place open was the Church no pub, no cars on the road, no Radios,and that is how they liked it.So I can understand how they feel about any change they do not want.
Vic Matcham
Guest 643- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,321
I'm with Howard on this one. Why should the majority say that the minority can't do something which makes no difference to them anyway? Let those that want to go to church do so and let the ones who want to go on a ferry do that too - where's the problem? I thought christianity was about tolerance among other things.
Anyway they could go to church in the morning then on a ferry in the afternoon - simple!
There's always a little truth behind every "Just kidding", a little emotion behind every "I don't care" and a little pain behind every "I'm ok".
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i thought that was the logical thing jacqui.
after all, we are predominantly a christian country, but still allow non believers to to what they want to do, whether it is
worship at their own places, or simply open up shops, cafes and other businesses if they so want.
the isle of lewis could not survive without the ferry service, yet they want to tell the company and its customers what to do.
Ahem... I'm gonna stay off this one.
Please don't!
If democracy is to work, then majority votes count. And it is naive to say the ferry won't make a difference - of course it will, as it will lead to further needs that have to be met, like car parking, cafes, banking (perhaps), otherwise why would the ferry company bother? They are not doing it because they are very nice people who want to help. They are a business.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
life goes on whatever.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
BERN
Im with you on this one, im not strong on the religious front, but it sounds like the island itself doesnt want the ferry surely they should have a large say in where there live.
no diffrent to when DOVER people kicked up over the proposed prison
people power.
im a great believer in it.
A ferry as BERN SAYS WOULD HAVE a big impact on the island.
Let the islanders decide me says !!
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
the ferry has been operating 6 days a week for decades.
why would one more day make any difference?
the islanders can decide to use it or not.
the comparison with an open prison escapes
me
Guest 643- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,321
Howard I'm still with you on this. There is no comparison with the open prison, that's just Keith waffling on about nothing again
As you say, why will one more day make a difference. All very well saying that the opposers should have their way because they are the majority, but why does anyone have to give way, the two can live together.
At least Bern is talking sense and I can see her point of view, it's just that for the life of me I can't see why running a couple of ferries a day is going to interfere with anyones wish to worship on a Sunday. How many people in Dover go to church? How many travel by ferry on a Sunday? It's a free world, if you want to do either you can, if you don't then don't. Why spoil other people's pleasure just because you don't like it.
Go on Rick, Bern and I are eager to hear your point of view on this
There's always a little truth behind every "Just kidding", a little emotion behind every "I don't care" and a little pain behind every "I'm ok".
You asked for it.... Here goes!
Bringing the concept of "democracy" into any debate about religion is futile in the extreme. Any established religion is the polar opposite of "democratic". No religious group "elects" its leaders, god figures, or whatever, no public-spirited body of people establish the "rules", and any religious group seems to want the whole world and its mother to bend over backwards to support their so-called "rights". By their very nature, religions are dogmatic, totalitarian, and governed by traditional principles with no (or very little) room for flexibility.
The answer is stupidly simple - give people a choice. Hey doesn't God advocate the use of FREE WILL? Why not impose the ability to practice free will? Let the boat run - if you fancy a Sunday sailing, you can have one. If your Sunday is reserved for religious endeavours and worship, then simply don't use the boat. How can it be easier?? But it cannot be this way can it? I don't claim to know a great deal about this story but it does look like the "secular" use of this boat on a Sunday offends the senses of the Christians, hence the problem.
It really doesn't matter one atom if the Christian fraternity represent the majority or the minority. This isn't about democratic processes. They represent a faith, and that means that they will defend their rights to tradition above all else, no matter what proportion they represent. In our dumbed-down PC-crazy paranoid world, who in their right mind would want to offend anyone from any faith? Well, except me of course!
I love the idea of imposing free will on the masses.........seriously!
It's not about religion, it's about lifestyle: the majority want to reserve Sunday for worship - it could be for rabbit-hunting, lemon throwing or spoon balancing, same difference - and the ferries will impact on it. Therefore the ferries are a bad thing. Democracy - doncha love it...?
Yes I do Bern - it's better than the alternatives!
