Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Fortunately none of my friends went there that night Howard, we all stayed in Erdington. I will never forget that night when we got back to the lodgings and found a very worried landlady, not knowing why, all jittery, insisting we all called home...
Howard, 'government sponsored' is hardly a sensible term to use.
It is an unfortunate fact that most if not all military campaigns have examples of groups of soldiers 'running amok'. If you want a historic Irish example look at the seige of Drodegha where Cromwell's troops massacred over 3000 after the town had surrendered.
Whenever you get groups of young heavily armed men running on testosterone and fear there will be occasions when training breaks down.
I suggest that none of the soldiers set out that morning with the intention of killing innocent civilians, which would seem to have been the modus operandi of the IRA.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
that is my point bob, the army represent us so enquiries have to be held when things go wrong.
casual killers are simply a criminal matter, the paramilitaries are no better than common murderers.
this makes them people to be caught and tried before a judge and 12 jurypersons.
Guest 658- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 660
Here is my six penneth on the events, firstly at least 2 people who have information to add were not called to give evidence to the inquiry. I received extensive training before a tour of northern Ireland , 1para did not they were rushed into the area.They were put in a situation that they were not trained for as such they reacted as they had been trained. No prosecutions should be complentated they behaved as they thought right.Yes it was a cock up and innocent people died,but the enquiry is faulty. We need to put it behind us and move forward.
beer the food of the gods
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
I realy is hard after all this time to decide to take action now after all these years, where theres a lot more inviolved than just the individual who shot.
there was the tensions at the time (relayed in other posts by our Ken) which doesn't excuse the actions but never the less were there.
then there was commanding officers who may have instructed.
lots of other complications.
The report is clear, it's time now to draw a line under it all, work for continued peace in all of Ireland North and South
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i don't think we have heard the last of this.
compensation claims will inevitably come into play, also calls for prosecutions, though the legal experts say this would be very difficult.
Sadly Howard you are right, and we know from experience the Northern Irish like to harp back to something that happened 300+ years ago, demonstrating an inability to "Move on".
However, for the good of all, th politicians, churchmen, civil leaders etc., should, with one voice, attempt to set this report as the milestone in history when NI finally dropped sectarianism and moved forward as one nation. Putting a stop to the Orange Order marches would be a good place to start, followed by secular schooling with no religious teaching.
Just seen a pig and a pie go past the window.
Guest 693- Registered: 12 Nov 2009
- Posts: 1,266
Doesn't all this just go to show what an emotive and deeply rooted issue Northern Ireland was, is, and will continue to be for some time yet to come? There are compelling arguments from many here, but I believe Guzzler's "We need to put it behind us and move forward" comment wins top prize for being the most pertinent. Unless we do exactly that, irrespective of the many rights and wrongs on all sides, Northern Ireland's troubles will never go away. Thankfully, even the majority of the terrorists realise that to be true and are working with old enemies to make peace.
True friends stab you in the front.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
things do seem to be improving at last there,the tourism there is booming, the former paramilitaries just battle with each other now and have turf wars over drugs.
i feel sure that most people want to see the back of sectarianism, helps nobody.
Sid, if your family and ancsestors had been habitually maimed, murdered, abused and killed just for speaking their own language you might also be quietly pissed off. Yes, we have to move on, but that can only be done if we ALL acknowledge the injustices all round.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
that applies to most of us bern, most of our ancestors did not originate in the united kingdom.
my name will confirm that.
grown up people move on and go with their own life experience.
My point howard
Bern, what didi I say? Anyway, my ancestors, true Anglo Saxons were maimed, murdered, abused and killed for speaking Olde English instead of French, so, we all have this in our deep recesses. Being enslaved by French Normans is no different to being enslaved by French English!
I suppose time is the factor here! My grandfather was imprisoned for speaking Irish, his native tongue.
Terrible things happen throughout history Bern, no-one is justifying any of it. But, at some point a line must be drawn if we are to move forward and try to make things better. I'm sure you agree.
I do, actually. I think I am just nodding towards the time factor - that the further away an atrocity is the easier it is to forget/forgive/justify it. I don't see this as an unreservedly good thing, I have to say. To forget histroy is to risk it happening again - vis Hitler. But real peace and reconciliation is posisble, but it takes an almighty effort!!
Truth and reconciliation Bern. That Nelson Mandela bloke is okay.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
spot on sid, nelson may have been a useless politician, but a statesman that forgets the past and works towards bringing all strands of a complicated nation together.