Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
18 February 2010
15:0840984It would appear that Argentina have decided to restrict and log all shipping using their waters as access to the Falklands.This in turn has led to cries from William Hague the Younger asking for the Royal Navy presence and fleet to be strengthened.Brown has responded today by saying all necessary steps to protect the islands are in place.
As a lot of people suspected way back in 82 the underlying reason why Maggie went to 'war' was oil and not to protect the penguin population. Guess what the UK are drilling exploratory wells in search of massive oil reserves hence the tightened security and dip in relations with the Argies.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
18 February 2010
15:2740985You are being very insulting towards the 3,000 British citizens who's home is in the Falkland Islands Marek, calling them penguins.
The islands were British centuries before oil was thought to be present.
The Argentinians renewed claim though may itself be prompted by the oil. Under UN conventions though there is one way Argentina can get sovereignty over the islands legally and that is to convince the inhabitants to vote for it. Of course they wont vote for that, they want to remain British as is their right, particularly after the Argies failed attempt to seize the islands by force in 1982.
Well done William for a firm stand on behalf of the people of the Falklands.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
18 February 2010
15:3440987I can find nothing wrong with that Marek,but can not agree with you why we went to war, It was Argentina that went to war with us,not us with them.
If there is oil there good we need it.
And they are companys drilling for oil and if they need the R,N. there to protect them so be it.If we had handed over the Falklands to Argentina they would be doing the same as we are.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
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18 February 2010
15:4640989BarryW
I was NOT referring to the residents as penguins, as you well know.There are more penguins than residents and if they,the Falklanders, want to remain British then so be it,however a sweetner of say £5 million per family plus expenses on being relocated to a country of their choosing could sway the voters into thinking otherwise and save lives but thats by the by.
As for William the Younger I'm sure the Marines could find him a spot on their first landing craft should a task force be deemed necessary and set sail. How easy it is for politicians to cry War from the safety of their snug offices and expenses laden bank accounts.I must check his record of interests and directorships to see if he is on any Arms manufacturers boards or ship building yards????
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 686- Registered: 5 May 2009
- Posts: 556
18 February 2010
15:5440990Vic: It takes two to tango as the saying goes. The Argies declared war on us and we declared war on them - simples!
There is a military presence in the area at all times; some 1,500 troops on the island and three or four warships patrol the area at all times I believe.
My worry is if the Argies decide to start another shooting match - I'm not so sure we have the ability to strike back any more. The Sea Harrier was of prime importance in the last conflict, and we don't have that aircraft now.
Phil West
If at first you don't succeed, use a BIGGER hammer!!
18 February 2010
16:0140993Marek - take plenty of no notice. We know what you meant!
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
18 February 2010
16:1340998Bern
I think that if there are massive oil reserves that perhaps we could work with the Argentines and share earths natural resources rather than fight over them like two dogs over a bone.But thats far too civilised a view for most to take in......Cry God for William or whatever as the kids say...
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
18 February 2010
16:1640999I'm not sure I do know what Marek means Bern. We went to war because the Argies invaded British sovereign territory, containing British subjects. We didn't ask them to invade but General Galtieri needed to do something to restore local faith in a failing Military Junta and the Malvinas were his way out of that problem.
I had dinner after the conflict with an Argentinian in London, on HMS Belfast as it happens, and he said his countrymen were amazed that we, being such a tiny country, bothered to take the Islands back; they'd been led to believe the inhabitants wanted to be part of Argentina and all their army had to do was turn up to get a guaranteed success without bloodshed.
I advised him, this tiny country only had two passions, drinking and fighting, and we did both extremely well and no-one was going to take what was ours without a fight.
But, I also recall Dr David Owen stating on the radio many years ago that the Argies threatened to invade when Labour were in power in the '70's, but we sent a fleet presence down on the quiet and once the Argies found out about it they changed their minds.
For my part, if the Islanders want to become Argentinian instead of British that is up to them and I respect their decision. However, we should expect this item to keep coming up when the Argentian government gets into domestic troubles too.
18 February 2010
16:2841003The islanders will, I suppose always be partly a political football. They expressed a desire to remain British, and it is right and proper that their wishes should be paramount. But underlying that is the oil question, which came up at the time as well.
And I did know what Marek meant because I have been reading his posts for so long I understand!!!
18 February 2010
16:2841004Sorry................
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
18 February 2010
16:3741006Sid
What happened in the Falklands is history what I am saying is that with the benefit of that experience we may be able to secure the islands future without precious lives being lost.
Bern
Its lying in bed for 3 weeks thats made me more argumentative but thanks as always for your support...I'll always wear it...
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
18 February 2010
16:4341007The Islands are British territory full stop. That means we have the rights over the oil there and should keep it unless the islanders vote otherwise.
Why on earth should we bribe the islanders to 'become Argentinian' and hand over that oil? These are valuable reserves and if it means fighting the Argies over it then so be it. The British Armed Forces primary role is to protect British sovereign territory and British interests and that is exactly what they should do.
They day we act in the way you suggest, like cowards, by bribing British citizens in order to hand over sovereign British territory and its valuable oil reserves to a foreign nation, will be the day that it will no longer be safe to be British anywhere in the world and a day of great shame on our nation.
18 February 2010
16:5241009The oil reserves are irrelevant and to bring them into the equation is to dilute the only point that is of ANY importance, which is of course, the sovereign rights of British subjects and territories to protection from their armed forces.
When Dr Owen ordered the fleet to the South Atlantic and when Maggie did the same, oil reserves were not their main, or even a consideration. And that is how it should remain.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
18 February 2010
16:5441012You are of course right Sid. The rights of the British citizens are paramount but Marek was suggesting a cowardly approach to buy off these people.
For as long as they wish to be British then we must defend them. And that, fortunately means we keep the oil. Only they have the right to decide otherwise.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
18 February 2010
16:5541014BarryW
I did not write 'bribe the islanders to become Argentinian. I simply stated that they could be resettled in a country of their choosing with £5 million folding ones in their sky rockets to begin a new life thus hopefully saving lives and billions of pounds in protecting the islands.Being a financial consultant I would have thought you had seen the economic sense in that offer rather than letting emotions and heart rule ones head.
Nor did I state handing over the oil rights but merely suggested sharing it with the Argentines.Not only the profits but the costs.It will have to be piped to somewhere on the South American coast eventually before shipping. I think the world would view our actions as generous and a unilateral act of kindness that other countries may follow rather than the mean spirited scrooge like act of greed and its 'ours all ours' that prevails at present.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
18 February 2010
17:0741015No Marek - that is the simple answer.
If the Argies want a fight then we give them one but hopefully they will have learnt their lesson and it wont be necessary.
I am appalled by the attitude that we should not defend British people and interests like some skulking coward in the face of a bully, Chamberlain and peace in my time come to mind and look where that got him and us.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
18 February 2010
17:1441017None of you have said it,but it does look like most of you are agreeing with my post. Good.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
18 February 2010
17:2141019Cowardly? It takes a very brave person to put forward a radical peaceful suggestion to resolve a problem that could easily escalate out of control. Its also very easy to make a child like cry for blood and fight to settle a a difference of opinions its far more difficult to find a peaceful resolution.And who will 'we' go running to for assistance....yep you guessed it cap in hand begging the Yanks for satelitte time,arms and intelligence.
Give me a break BarryW I have been called many things in my life but cowardly....well thats a laughable first but I certainly would not want to send any of my sons into battle until all peaceful avenues had been explored and exhausted.We lost too many family members in the last world war to take things as lightly as you appear to do.My Uncles stories of concentration camps he endured give us nightmares as kids and I for one would be banging on Number 10 in the hope of securing a peaceful solution.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
18 February 2010
17:3941021Marek, I don't think Barry was accusing you of being personally cowardly, rather the suggestion you made was, to him and probably others, a seemingly cowardly way out when a bully comes calling.
Not one of us wants a war of any sort, but sometimes they are inevitable with all their horrible consequences. When that time comes, we as Brits stand up where others shy away.
18 February 2010
17:4541023Now, we Irish like a scrap as much as the next person, but we have learned the hard way that there are alternatives. Not always, sometimes there is no substitute for a good slapping, but sometimes it is worth exploring options first!