Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
6 October 2009
02:2229891The Tories opinion poll lead is fuelled far more by anti Labour sentiment than the appeal of David Camerons Conservative Party a voter survey has suggested.
Almost 47% of people asked who were voting for or leaning towards voting for the Tories told pollsters ORB were doing so as a vote against the Labour Party record.
Another 17% said they were mainly voting against the PM with only 1 in 3 putting their choice down as a positive endorsement of the Conservatives.
Its amazing what you can do with polls but really this just illustrates the basic distrust of all politicians following the expenses scandal.It was on Labours 'watch' so therefore they take the blame and a way of registering your disapproval is to vote for the Opposition not necessarily because you agree with their policies.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
6 October 2009
06:3929892Yes Marek this seems to be the case...Labour fatigue has set in rather than a Tory enthuse situation. But it is a serious fatigue this time, and by not having anyone at the helm with charismatic magnitude to pull it back around, as say Tony Blair was capable of, the situation is sunk for Labour. Barring some severe shooting in own foot scenario by the Tories, they should canter in to power.
They just have to place some attractive policies before the public and bob's their uncle.
But all these tough welfare cuts worry me. Im not on any welfare myself just to make that clear, so am not clouded by my own situation but am concerned that everyone on disability/ sickness benefit is going to be put through the most awkward embarrassing means test ringer. Work or else, and who really decides who is fit for work...just a home visiting pen pusher from the department? worrying.
Also, the plan to increase the retirement age is also alarming. Jeez havent you given enough by the time you reach 65. The Tories clearly feel they are unstoppable right now otherwise people would not vote for these packages. Yes these measures save vast amounts of money but they have no community soul. As Paxman said on TV last night..."its a return to the nasty party isnt it??" when talking to Therese May, Tory front ranker.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
6 October 2009
07:1829893i would expect that barryw will dispute the poll coming up with one of his own.some of the tory policys are so ridiculce that are unworkable.the maine worry is to me where would the funding come from and how much abuse would there be in the system.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
6 October 2009
07:4729897It's not just the Conservatives who are putting up the retirement age Paul, Labour said they would years ago.
How much abuse do you think there is in the (benefits) system now Brian ?
There are two different types of payment: Disability Living Allowance and Incapacity Benefit and the second one is paid out almost willy-nilly.
There are people of working age who could work but have somehow acquired Incapacity Benefit from something that may have happened years ago, that they are still claiming for, or they've simply made up an illness.
We've all heard and seen the stories of benefit cheats who claim money and enter marathons or who are referees etc. these cheats are the ones who need investigating.
People with chronic illnesses like kidney failure and other deseases would love to work and many do, they don't want to vegetate at home, they want to work and be productive.
If the Conservatives have the balls to sort this whole sorry benefit mess out, then I think congratulations are in order; no previous government (Labour or Conservative) have done it - properly.
Roger
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
6 October 2009
07:5329899roger,im not talking benifit cheats here but goverment department abuse,one rule for us anther one for them.who determins who is sick,lame or lazy not a goverment enployee but a docter who is more quilyfied than the former.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
6 October 2009
07:5629901There is nothing at all new here. I do not dispute the figures as this happens to be very normal and is what I would expect.
It has always been the case that Governments lose the election rather than Oppositions win them. Old hat.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
6 October 2009
08:0429904The retirement age was mentioned.
Yes Labour do plan to increase the retirement age and all the Conservatives propose is to accellerate the move already under way. So there is nothing new here and the reason it has to be done is to help towards solving the financial problems caused by the present Government.
Clamping down on benefit cheats, again something Labour are supposed to be doing but is being addressed with greater urgency and determination by the Conservatives.
What you are hearing from the Conservative Party is the truth, something Labour tried to hide at their Conference. Honesty is breaking out in politics and it is important to be candid about where the cuts will come from in order to get a mandate.
Labour ignored the financial problems at their confernce and just promised a load more spending. Irresponsible and pulling the wool over peoples eyes.
I think that under the current climate the Party seen to tell the truth will be the one to reap the electoral reward. The electorate are not the fools Labour think they are.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
6 October 2009
08:1329908Some are Barry.
Roger
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
6 October 2009
12:2029913they may be the ones that put the blues in roger.
6 October 2009
15:2229919Ha!!!
In my work with vulnerable people I have seen doctors do the most bizarre and unkind things - as well as kind ones. I knew a doctor who would not confirm eligibility for incapacity benefit unless the person was unable to walk a few yards without collapse of serious shortage of breath. Now, I don't want anyone to cheat the benefits system any more than you do, but there must be a limit to unkindnesses.........this guy would make people walk until they were in severe pain. He made no allowances for vulnerable or limited people, and was not interested in their circumstances - any doctor worth their certificates will tell you health is never just about the physical state, it is also about the social situation and levels of support.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
6 October 2009
17:0729921There was very interesting coverage today on the George Osborne speech with the BBC finishing their lunchtime report by asking why would anyone vote for swingeing cuts...we expect a lot of abstentions at the polls....they said.
There are cuts right across the board, some we would probably approve of like the cuts in the House but many we wouldnt. Its austere time with the Tories folks!
Women get a particularly raw deal..having their retirement age shoved back from 60 to 66...which is pretty painful!
Just to be clear re the Labour positipon. Labour were indeed planning similar shifts re the pension age but NOT until 2024 as I understand it. The Tories are weilding the axe much quicker than that...by 2016 in fact. The way Boy George was talking a great many people in the public sector will lose their jobs, so he will most definitely add to the dole payout burden... but paying that way is better than paying salaries I guess. One tiny further note : the populace according to recent polls are still seeing the Tories in their old mantle of uncaring, so why are they gaining in popularity?? You tell me...
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
6 October 2009
18:1529924the cut in incapacity benefits is not the the great money saver that is claimed.
it will mean a saving of £25 per person taken of i.b.
housing benefit and council tax benefit will be unaffected, so the savings are minimal.
present government policy is taking people off of ib and onto a new benefit paying the sames as job seekers allowance.
by the time the election comes there will be very few left on incapacity benefit.
conferences love the rhetoric from the platform though.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
6 October 2009
20:0229927Can I just say about working till 66years or more before you can stop work.
I think 65years is a good time to stop work if you wish to and you should get your S/penion from that age,in alot of jobs by the time you reach that age (If you do) your body is saying stop,I went on till I was 67years in a very hard job going up ladders etc +the lifing of Steel,and working outside all year round and i am now paying for it with my hands and legs and i am just one of 1000s,I did not want to stop work but my body could not take anymore,and what about the lads working with me, they were at risk with me like that.I think the way forward would be at the age of 65 you should have to take a very good medical and if you pass it O.K. for one more year and so on,if you do not pass a medical at 65years old and you have worked your years up to then ,you pack up with a full penson,after working 50years or more you have done your best, and that is all one can do.I went on to long for my own good.
Guest 667- Registered: 6 Apr 2008
- Posts: 919
6 October 2009
20:1629929I am 63 and have never been out of work since I left school at the age of 15. I am looking forward to my retirement at 65 and no dam government better get in the way.
There are a lot who want to work on past 65 and good luck to them, but I am not one of them. I think I need to jump off my lowly ladder at 65 even though I never got to the top and to let someone else get on.
Just 22 months to go.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
6 October 2009
20:2229931Well said Harry, you do not want legs like I have,50years of climbing up and down them some times over 200ft up and that just to get where you are working.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
6 October 2009
21:0029933No-one is saying you cant retire at 65 (or 55 come to that) you just wont get your State Pension until 66 in 2016, with the age increasing after that. Remember these are Labour plans that are just being accellerated to help deal with Labour's debt so you can blame them on two counts.
If you have a personal or occupation pension, or other savings, then you can still retire earlier. If you dont have them, well that then is down to you for failing to save.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
6 October 2009
21:1829935Barry again that last post of yours, shows that you know nothing about how the others live.Some of the public can work and work till they drop and on poor pay and find it very hard just to keep their familys in food e,t,c and can not even think about saving for years aheadand how about the 1000s who lost their works pension,you forget about the very big debt the blues left last time they were in power.
The way most of your posts are put,it looks like you are talking down to the rest of us,all you see is blue after blue you never see it from both sides,and even with my bad legs come out with me for one day of hard work and see who is still standing at the end of it. Then add 50years to it working 6 or even seven days aweek at 12hours aday and that is what alot of the public are doing,and see at the age of 65 you can keep going .It is easy to just sit there talking about it but doing it is not the same.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
6 October 2009
21:3929936some good comments there from victor, to some people saving up for their old age is a luxury that they cannot afford.
usually they have paid a small fortune in contributions during their lives after being told when they started out that it would count towards their pension.
succesive governments repeated this then went back on it.
Guest 667- Registered: 6 Apr 2008
- Posts: 919
6 October 2009
22:4729941We need change and a new direction but listening to the Tory's it appears to be back to the same old non caring Tories we had when they were last in Government.
The lower paid public workers, nurses, teachers, firemen etc with their wages frozen and we will be back to seeing people losing their jobs & homes, while a new non caring Tory Government look on. The Unions of course will try to fight for their members and just be cut down again.
I am fed up to the back teeth of this Government and I was looking for better from Conservatives this time round. However all they are saying is we will do what we did before and to hell with those that fall by the way side.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
7 October 2009
07:4429948There is a lot of truth in what Vic says about working so many hours on low pay for 50 years or more and come 65, you want to pack it in.
I wouldn't call teachers or firemen low-paid people nowadays, but that's not the point; there are many poeple who don't earn reams of money and have to be very careful for most of their working life.
When the Conservative Government in 1997 were voted out, the economy was the strongest it had been for years.
Successive robbing the general public of various stealth-type taxes over the last 12 years is a big part of what now makes people poor and we have no, or very little benefit in where that money is supposed to have gone.
I don't have the figures, but I'm sure they are somewhere, where you can see how much you paid in taxes on things - petrol, road tax, TV licences, NI contributions etc. etc. etc. in 1997 and what you pay now.
All food stuffs have gone up not because of greedy farmers, but distribution costs due to higher taxes on fuel etc.
Everything has gone up so much over these last 12 years because the (Labour) government have robbed you and not improved the services that the money was taken for - nowhere enough anyway.
These are reasons why people couldn't save, couldn't go on holidays, couldn't do the things that working their arses off all year, should have allowed them to do.
Roger