Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
The banner on the frontpage of this weeks Dover Express screams the "We'll Build a Hospital!" headline. This of course follows yet another Tory shadow cabinet visitation from on high. They come, they see, they conquer..or so they would have you beleive. But once again the reality is its just another tiresome photo opportunity with little local relevence. Some could say its electioneering at its worst because what they promise is unlikely to ever happen.
We had a similar type of visitation only recently when Therese Villiers, okay dont ask, came and surveyed the difficulties we have with the A258. The idea being that she would look at it and get something done. The A258 is a very painful road for many of us. But we all know dont we that these visitations accomplish very little...no I'll reword that..accomplish nothing. We have been seeing them for years. It fills newspaper pages I guess, but the end result is nothing other than that. I know...I like a good photo opportunity myself but Im not entirely convinced that some of these visits are not just playing us for mugs.
This recent visit that led to the hospital quote was by Andrew Lansley, Conservative Shadow Health Secretary, but he is not singing from the same Tory hymn sheet as local head honcho Paul Watkins who is playing down this hospital idea and always has.
On one hand we have the Tory election campaign promising us everything we ever need, on the other hand we have the local Tory reality check.
Which one do you believe?
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
PaulB - Andrew Lansley is the Shadow Health Secretary, not Paul Watkins (who, incidentally was speaking before Lansely made his statement, an important distinction). When the Conservatives get elected the people of Dover and our new MP will have a clear statement by which they can hold the Government to account.
As I have asked before, would you prefer leading politicians to remain in their Westminster cocoon rather than get out an about on fact finding visits? I bet that if they did not come down you would very quickly be critisising them for that. Damned if you do, damned if you dont.
Unregistered User
Andrew Lansley & I are talking the same language. Just a matter of how stories are written up with a reality check.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
Well no BarryW I suppose I wouldnt want them to stay mothballed in Westminster and it is of course always good to get out and meet and greet. But politicians must be careful what they promise especially to people who are in some circumstances fairly desperate for change.
The reputation of politics and politicians is generally pretty low and I dont think this kind of 'instant fix' approach helps their image. People dont belive what politicians say and whose fault is that.
If the voters here in Dover bought/buy this latest headline and believed all this to be true, ie that Andrew Lansley would build us a hospital within 6 months of a Tory victory, then Charlie would probably win the election in 5 minutes flat because in Gwyns 11 years he hasnt been able to secure us a hospital with a stable future. But will they believe it. See the previous paragraph.
Some photo opportunities are fine though, like the one of Gwyn and Charlie with Star the dog, it wasnt set up but just happened, as life in Pencester happens, and a great pic of community political life on a summer's day, just as long as neither promises us free doggie haircuts for all mutts forever...or similar.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
PaullyW we posted at roughly the same time...I most definitley had the feeling you werent in total harmony with Mr Lansley approach..so you surprise me there.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Funny old world. Don't we want clear statements and answers from politicans that they can be held to or would you prefer a lot of ifs and buts?
I have to say that I did not read exactly what Lansely said and have only the manner of the Express report to go by, so I am not sure if the statement was the former or latter.... I certainly hope it was a clear statement as that will give Charlie, as our MP, a lot of leverage over the new Government on Dover's behalf. The problem is though, how far down the road will the present half baked proposals have gone in two years and will it be practical then to get the facilities upgraded to a real hospital? Clearly there would be a point at which such a huge financial commitment will have beeen made that it might be impossible to deliver a proper hospital without huge monetary waste and that might not be realistic.
Surely, PaulB, you would welcome a clear statement of intent, if that indeed what it was. But then you would no doubt prefer not to have something pledged that will help the Conservative campaign....
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
should the report in the press on what mr lansley said to be true, he will be in trouble with his superiors.
the blue people have made it clear that they will look at the economy for a long period in order to see what can be afforded.
there is no way that specifics can be promised so far in advance of an election.
i very much doubt that local people took any notice of the vote catching.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Except Howard, Charlie, using his financial expertise identified how a hospital can be paid for from within existing budgets. The budget is available it is just getting the commitment to it.
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
I really want to believe we will get a hospital but I agree that this just vote pleasing talk. He is a Lawyer, a profession that relies on 50% of it's work force to happily represent the unrighteous for the right price. Let's face it Barry to pay for something within the existing budget is simple, you just take it away from something else. I'm not sure this financial expertise.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i still support the grupenfuhrer up at whitfield on this one.
8 million quiddies on offer, grab it with both hands.
we will not get a full blown general hospital here whilst the facilities at ashford, canterbury and margate exist.
the issue is about catchment areas.
should the misguided campaign carry on, there is every chance we will lose the 8 miilion on offer.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
DT1, There is a capital budget and it is just a matter of allocation. Example, the £13m being spent on a facility in Ashford where they already have a hospital. £8m is peanuts in these terms and you simply wont get much for that kind of money. Add that to the £13m and you are getting somewhere, £21m will go a long way towards something worthwhile in Dover.
Unregistered User
Right in one Howard.
It is a matter of what is described as a hospital.
The issue is, beds for the elderly & where they are provided.
There are a lot of people posturing out there , knowing what is not on offer & misleading the public.
I believe you will get a replacement for the present facilities at Buckland, plus a few more. Currently that does not include beds.
I suppose it depends on our perception of need. There are many people in hospital or care beds who could be at home, where most people would prefer to be, if given the right amount of targetted support and sufficient safeguards against risk and abuse. This can also work out cheaper than maintaining hospital facilities. But clearly there is also a need for in-patient support near to home - evidence is clear that people - particularly vulnerable people - who are hospitalised near to their circle of support recover quicker and better than those seperated by distance. It is crucial for local communities to get the balance right, and in order to do that it is necessary to tap into local knowledge and expertise - that doesn't mean either allowing local people without expertise in project and healthcare management to run the show or allowing outsiders with that expertise to take over.....it means marrying the two together.
Unregistered User
Well said Bern.
Unregistered User
I think I have written this before .The GP's have the buying power [Commissioning] & have described the service they want to buy to the PCT. According to a person present at a PCT meeting where the 'spec' was received no mention of beds was made. That is different from what is being described as the public approach from GP's. What is not being called for is an 'all singing all dancing' general hospital.
I believe Andrew Lansley discounted the latter & described funds made available for what the GP commissioners are stating [with or without beds]. There is a town centre site currently being explored to deliver these services-as stated by the PCT at a meeting yesterday-along with other sites wanted by members of a throng of locals.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
I wonder how much of the alleged £8 million on offer will be wasted on endless consultation papers,committee meetings fees et al.
Here's just a few of those I have read about with an interest:
Dept of Health
KCC
Scrutiny Cttee DDC
Primary Care Trust
East Kent Hospital Trust
Community Hospital Services
GP's and Practice Based Commissioning Groups
Community,Regeneration and Democratic Services
and that does not include the emergency services Police ,Fire and Ambulance.The Dept of Transport and finally the poor patients input.How much of the £8 million spondolics will be left after their endless cttee mtgs.Thats before a brick has been laid or a hole dug.
Heres what we need ...wards for the very old and young in Dover so parents can be close to their sick child and relatives close to their aged parents.Some form of E & A and the minor injuries unit.A free bus that takes out patients for appointments at WHH,QEQM and Canterbry to run starting at 8am for the 10am appointments and midday for the 2pm appointments.Adequate and reasonably priced if not free car parking facilities.An xray dept and Haemotology Unit.
The lottery should be asked to sponsor the ambulance services.Foreign non EU patients should pay for their treatment.
There is so much waste in the health service,beds scrapped rather than refurbished given a coat of paint and put back into use.Machinery (some of which was purchased by local charities)lying idle in Buckland due to transportation costs ,I am sure a decent manager could ring around and find a company only too willing to move it to another hospital for free even if it was just for the free publicity it would gain.No we live in a disposable society where we scrap rather than repair.Retired nurses could be asked to work a few hours each week and not be taxed on their earnings or their benefits affected as they would be seen to be serving the community and not just earning pin money.Free childrens nursery facilities provided for nurses who would like to return to work either full or part time after having children.
At the moment we appear to have too many bloody chiefs and not enough workers and nobody willing to make a few radical decisions.If we want a Community hospital then lets get the community involved in helping to run and maintain it.Local offenders could maintain the grounds,sweep the car parks help with the laundary anything to help keep costs at an affordable level.
Well that should put the cat amongst the pigeons.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Unregistered User
Like it ,Marek
Marek - it sounds good!
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
Well put Marek. Another question to throw into the put would be, 'how much have all those various bodies spent on producing reports into the services required?'
Already the NHS representatives are quoting the results of the survey and stating that people want to be cared for at home, when the options on offer were only Ashford, Margate or home. What they are taking as a preference for home should acctually be read as an aversion to travelling to Ashford or Margate for treatment while cut off from visitors.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
some real food for thought from our marek.may i add that the use of nurses agencies be discontinued.
the charges are horrendous, and the level of committment from the agency staff is not always the same as the permanent people.
getting back to the comments from the throne room at whitfield, paul used the right word in "posturing", the general
hospital is not on the cards.
the emergency services, when asked about a possible disaster in the channel, have made it clear that they are happy with the arrangements they have with margate,ashford and canterbury.
that did suprise me, but without support from them, forget it.
we are getting the same people clamouring for a general hospital that were previously demanding wonderful facilities in the DTIZ.
