Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 6,023
I have received an email in response to mine re Snoops .We may see something happening when the Gateway opens in Castle Sreet.
That's a bit something and nothing, isn't it? We might see something happening when the sun rises tomorrow or when my leg drops off.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i cannot see a connection between the gateway opening and snoops.
sounds like another fob off with a hint.
Agreed. A bit of open communication would be a refreshing change in Dover.
PS - let's not take our eye off the Wetherspoons ball - it is they who own the derilict building and keep fobbing us off - get those digits going and get those pens out!!!!!
Guest 682- Registered: 19 Jan 2009
- Posts: 146
PaulB has drawn my attention to this thread knowing that I am quite busy at present and that I was actively involved in a move a couple of years ago now, to get the present owners of the building, J.D. Wetherspoon, to move this development forward or, at least, address the eyesore that we see daily.
With the help of friends on Doverforum and the local media, we succeeded, through naming and shaming, in getting a representative of the company to come to Dover and discuss the issues with Dover District Council officers and myself. We went into the building armed with a large portable floodlight and, after knowing how magnificent that building was when called the Granada or even the ABC, tears came to my eyes when I saw the dilapidated state it is now in and how, after being a night club, Images & Snoops, how they, in making alterations, had ruined what the building was.
Original construction on the building, designed by Theodore Komisarjevski, on a former brewery site, started in 1929 with Bovis as the main contractors. It was officially opened at a ceremony attended by one of the owners, Sidney (Later Lord) Bernstein, on Wednesday, 8th January, 1930 - this building was the first cinema/theatre in the country to bear the name Granada - a name still very foremost in entertainment in this country.
The opening ceremony included British Movietone News, Pathe pictorial, a Mickey Mouse film and a live performance by a 20 piece band on the stage.
Many of you will recall what was originally known as 'Dover's Wonder Cinema' looked like I can advise that that magnificent central stairway, with the balconies going in both directions at the top, and the 'Boxes' high up at the sides of the stage are still there but the floor has been levelled in a split level way for the use as a night club.
I can remember, as no doubt many of you will, not only some of the good old films of the past that were shown in this building, but some of the superb stage shows that were held there in the 50's and 60's with top acts such as Helen Shapiro, Cliff Richard, The Shadows, Billy Fury, Adam Faith and many, many more.
Still, back to now, our actions eventually brought a series of meeting between J.D.'s and DDC officers and a planning application was submitted and went through discussions until, out of the blue, it was withdrawn by the applicants. Many months passed and discussions were started up again and another planning application was submitted - I remember asking the case planning officer whether they were serious this time and he considered they were - alas, after many meetings to bring it forward, it was withdrawn again. In fairness to J.D.'s, there are problems to overcome with the site spanning the River Dour as, since the river was awarded main river status, any planning application has to be submitted to the Environment Agency (Who are now responsible for the river under main river status) for their comments and it is they who have also played a major role in the delay in developing the Buckland Paper Mill site.
I have recently been toying with the idea of attempting to come from another angle once again. Following Paul's Email the other day, I asked the current position with DDC officers. There are no active discussions at present with the owners of the building or their agents but there are rumours. This has been supported in a telephone call I had from YourDover who have been doing some work on this too that should be in their publication this Wednesday.
It is a case of watch this space and hopefully, if my sources are correct, there could be something happening in the next few weeks but I'll believe it when I see it especially during the current national recession.
One problem is that with such a large eyesore in the splendid setting of Castle Street, attention is drawn away from a number of other buildings in this street that are in desperate need of attention even by local owners - some local property owners need to get their acts together if they want to help with taking Dover forward as we would all like to see.
Scotchie: Regent building in Deal is owned by DDC and expressions of interest have been received that are currently being considered.
Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 6,023
Nigel see my post 21 .I to have been in touch with DDC .Some of us not so busy these days as you well know .I thought you were on another planet somewhere .
All the people on the forum needed to know there is movement .
Perhaps your little chum will get the buildings sorted out .
Was that strictly necessary Sue?
Thanks Nigel - any chance of chivvying up the other property owners along there? They must be kissed off with the appearance too?
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
Many thanks Nigel for filling us in on all that. Excellent post. I remember myself all the activities but forget all the nuances, so glad to be reminded. It is staggering to think that the very top stage acts in the past used to perform there as those people mentioned were huge pop stars in their day. As a teenage kid in Ireland I thought Adam Faith was the bees knees.
"what do you want if you dont want money!"
and of course Cliff and the Shadows and all the others mentioned.
Sad then that the establishment has fallen such a long way. I remember at one point we thought it was saveable but when Nigel went inside with JDW's people he was shocked at what he saw. We knew then it was beyond repair...
But yes lets welcome posts from Nigel as its shortermism to greet it with brickbats. If we do then people like himself wont bother. Nigel is a bit of a high flyer now...not only his usual DDC Cabinet Role, but he is now Chairman of the Conservatibve Party and of course has just won the election at KCC level...so thats a busy schedule in anyones book
Thanks for taking the time Nigel.
Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 6,023
Yes it was Bern .You dont know half the story .I was responsible for getting properties back into use .I said the truth will out .
I emailed DDC for you all but I did not write along posting .
Guest 643- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,321
Oh Nigel Nigel ......... you brought a lot of good memories back there! Back in the early 60s I was going out with a lad who was a lighting engineer at the then ABC. Through him I met Joe Brown, Billy Fury, Marty Wilde and several other stars of the time - wonderful days! These guys were real stars, not like the wimpy ones of today forever demanding this that and the other(
) in their dressing rooms. I can remember sitting in the cinema chatting with Joe Brown over a coffee and he was just so nice. I do hope something does get done with the building and thank you for all your hard work in the matter.
As Paul says Nigel, keep posting when you have time and well done for all your recent successes - the right man in the job.
There's always a little truth behind every "Just kidding", a little emotion behind every "I don't care" and a little pain behind every "I'm ok".
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,698
If there is no movement this time around despite rumour and innuendo it surely must be time for DDC to utilise the statutory powers open to them to force property owners to maintain their property; if they fail to do so then DDC can undertake reasonable works to make it presentable and bill the owner. The threat of this type of action may be enough on its own to encourage action even if only to spruce up the exterior and make it sound
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Alec Sheldon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 18 Aug 2008
- Posts: 1,036
A bit of name dropping there I think Jacqui.!!!!!!
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
If there's a will to do so, Ross.
Other Towns have done this and been successful and it has made an enormous difference to their Town(s).
I don't know, but maybe there's not enough officers at DDC to follow this up, which makes it even more important about this Business Support Body being started - they could follow it up and find out how the other Towns did it - someone needs to.
Roger
Sues comment that we don't know the full story somehow sums it up for me...........go on, then, let's have it.
Guest 643- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,321
Alec you old rascal
I suppose I was name dropping (a bit!) but you have to agree that the pop scene way back then was a lot more innocent and friendly than it is now. I used to love coming to Dover and visiting the old ABC and then going to the Top Hat in Market Square afterwards. Good old days - kids today don't have half the fun we did
Sorry Bern - you're right, let's hear the story ........
There's always a little truth behind every "Just kidding", a little emotion behind every "I don't care" and a little pain behind every "I'm ok".
Guest 673- Registered: 16 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,388
QUOTE FROM PAUL AKA SCOTCHIE
Please join the Facebook group if you can...
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/group.php?gid=90368461444
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Have registered on Facebook and added my name to the Wetherspoons group, for what its worth. See one or two other forumites on there so far.
Guest 673- Registered: 16 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,388
Interested to see Nigel say "In fairness to J.D.'s, there are problems to overcome with the site spanning the River Dour as, since the river was awarded main river status, any planning application has to be submitted to the Environment Agency (Who are now responsible for the river under main river status) for their comments and it is they who have also played a major role in the delay in developing the Buckland Paper Mill site."
It was my impression from the plans on the last planning application that the river crossed diagonally under Castle Street and then ran down outside the end wall of Snoops, underneath the adjacent shop. I even went to have a look and the angle of the end wall to the pavement seemed to confirm that it formed the retaining wall for the river.
However, Nigel is bound to be right and I assume that the river percolates under Snoops as well. Indeed, I am well aware that a lot of basements occasionally flood further up the street as the cellar at Blakes has a problem with this. Also, I seem to remember reading that Castle Street was initially constructed as a raised causeway through a soggy field.
My interest was sparked by viewing the planning proposals. As Wetherspoons like to go for a bit of character in their developments, such as the converted church in Folkestone, it appeared to me that there was an opportunity to make the river a feature, flowing through the centre of the pub. It is little more than a stream so it is not beyond the bounds of possibility. A little bridge or two, a couple of rowing boats in a lagoon, etc. Just a thought.
I wonder if they ever intended to have two Wetherspoons so close together or whether the idea was to redevelop Snoops when the DTIZ came to fruition and the focus of activity correspondingly shifted, and then to close the present one down.
The grand DTIZ redevelopment plans now seem further away than ever, with Mr Aziz saying that even the paperwork is not due to be completed for another eighteen months let alone construction commenced. As this is merely the latest of ten years of forecasts of imminent development, one has to take this with a pinch of salt. Nothing happened in the years of plenty and now we are in a global recession and there is no money around. Also Morrisons have stolen a march on Asda and are building a big new supermarket bang in the centre of town. Will Asda, as the linchpin of the DTIZ, still be interested in pursuing these plans?
With no movement on the DTIZ remotely in the offing, one suspects that Snoops will merely continue to deteriorate for years to come. As Bern says, only a campaign to shame Wetherspoons into tarting it up is likely to have any effect.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
I do find it amusing that we treat collor with kid gloves, many have suggested ways of moving this on, but no doubt he will take the credit
I don't care realy who gets it done, Nigel, Sue, Roger or whoever, it doesn't realy matter, lets just get summat done about.
Yep we are all busy, in all manner of ways., but post a number of times,
will wait for you to keep me upo to date on postings paulb
I rather suspect it is us who will move it on by persisting and pushing, even if those who get named are the visible ones at council who rubber stamp it.