Gary39- Registered: 7 Jul 2017
- Posts: 446
Hi,
How can they prosecute soldier F when IRA terrorists get letters of pardon from one the biggest liars and war criminals Tony Blair....the world has gone mad. Basically why join services when the you are going to in any situation or battle will be will I get in years to come be prosecuted
.
I await for reactions
Yes I am a proud Navy Vet of 23 years but now totally disgusted what has happened
Jan Higgins likes this
Pablo- Registered: 21 Mar 2018
- Posts: 614
A total disgrace and (in my opinion) totally at odds with the spirit of the Good Friday Agreement.
Jan Higgins likes this
Captain Haddock
- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,848
From this week's Speccie.
Gary39 and Jan Higgins like this
"Shall we go, you and I, while we can? Through the transitive nightfall of diamonds"
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,782
Apart from those directly involved or with an axe to grind do the majority of people agree with these very expensive witch hunts from years ago.
I believe they are more about revenge rather than justice especially in this case, how can one soldier be thought guilty while his comrades are not, complete madness.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
A few points here, although I am against amnesties in general for serious criminal behaviour there was a case for it so that a long standing problem could be solved, unfortunately it didn't extend to all sides.
On the day in question 28 unarmed civilians were shot (14 fatally) some of whom were shot in the back or whilst tending to the injured. This is not what we would expect of our famously professional and disciplined army.
What I have never discovered is how they were briefed that day by their commanding officer who would have known that there was little likelihood of serious trouble from a civil rights march. If he told them to do what they did then he should be up before the court not a scapegoat from the regiment.
Weird Granny Slater, Keith Sansum1 and ray hutstone like this
Gary39- Registered: 7 Jul 2017
- Posts: 446
Yet the IRA who murdered innocent civilians, tortured soldiers and civilians, knee capped people , etc walk free with Pardons. Is that justice?
No, at the time the Army was not trained for that.. We were not there. But if you read reports there was gun fire at the troops. You also could not properly tell if a protestor was going to throw grenade or nail bomb. In fact one the protestors shot was found to have nail bombs on him. Again all these people wanting justice were not there.
Again until you have been in that situation you not know you would react.. This witch hunt has got to stop. Imagine you are in a situation.. will you hesitate and think where is is my lawyer. That could cost you, your comrades or innocents their lifes.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
paragraph two # 5, aledged only.
Gary39- Registered: 7 Jul 2017
- Posts: 446
You are facing a riot. Could you tell if it was a shot or just noise. I know I could not.. how would you react? I do not think any one could. In the troubles reckon your your first thought would be a shot fired.
Reginald Barrington
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 17 Dec 2014
- Posts: 3,225
Quote "In fact one the protestors shot was found to have nail bombs on him."
He did but it is widely believed that they were planted after the event and even if not it is accepted fact that he was not in the process of throwing them and he certainly was not shot for having them (he was shot accidently in a 2 for 1 event)
Having done riot training and been on the streets of northern Ireland and also been shot at at various times during my service, yes you can distinguish between bullet shot and noise, you can distinguish wether the bullet is heading your way, from left to right, right to left, towards your left or right or away from you.
On Bloody Sunday members of 1 Para went out with the hope of attaining kills, they were sharing dum dum bullets in the saracen AV en route.
2 soldiers were responsible for the starting of the incident soldier F and G, ( G has since passed away) and the majority of deaths, they should have faced justice at the time and had there not been a cover up they would.
Many other soldiers reported bewilderment at what and why protesters were being targeted.
While I would fully support the dropping of charges against members of British Forces NI. Unfortunately i understand why they are not and will not.
Members of PIRA believe they were fighting a just cause and never signed up to any national accords on rules of war (Geneva convention etc.)
The British forces have always held themselves to a higher standard and have signed all international accords on rules of war, having signed up to them we have to comply with them, no ifs no buts!
Aside from that there is a Colonel Wilford who broke direct orders in sending armoured vehicles in and and to what extent they were to push the protesters back during the arrests operation (he was awarded an MBE later that year)
Weird Granny Slater, Keith Sansum1 and howard mcsweeney1 like this
Arte et Marte
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
The civil rights protestors could never understand why troops were deployed when the RUC policed previous marches and they weren't sympathetic to the republican cause. Up until that fateful day a few stones were thrown at the police much the same as we have over here in peace time. In addition to my earlier comments about the briefing it would be interesting to know the briefing given to army leaders by the politicians of the day.
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,782
Interesting points from Reginald #9 but what good will come from this prosecution even if he is found guilty, except stir things up yet again.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,823
Jan;
I do hear what you say but it does show cover ups don't work
so, hadit been dealt with at the time we wouldn't be looking at it today.
Weird Granny Slater, Reginald Barrington and howard mcsweeney1 like this
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Also families of the victims need closure.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
so the ira terrorist gets away with it again.
Jan Higgins likes this
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,782
howard mcsweeney1 wrote:Also families of the victims need closure.
What about the families of victims of far more recent crimes that might get solved with the money this witch hunt has and will continue to cost.
Brian Dixon likes this
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Jan Higgins wrote:What about the families of victims of far more recent crimes that might get solved with the money this witch hunt has and will continue to cost.
Always plenty of "what abouts" but the Saville enquiry consisted of judges not police officers. The conclusion was clear that an atrocity had been committed in our name so the cost to the public purse pales into insignificance when compared to justice being served.
Weird Granny Slater likes this
Reginald Barrington- Location: Dover
- Registered: 17 Dec 2014
- Posts: 3,225
Jan I agree with your sentiment, but these things can't be compared, it's the same as when we constantly here this or that expenditure could pay for this many police, teachers, nurses etc.. that money would not be available for current investigations.
I hate myself for saying it but the families of many of those killed in northern ireland by our security forces deserve the same support from their (our) government.
What should never have happened was the amnesty given to the terrorists on the republican side.
Howard, #10 the army were being used because only a short while before there had been a total ban on marches and the previous weekend they had defied this ban, marched and rioted, the fear was an escalation of the violence and that additional bodies would be needed, i.e. it wasn't just policing a march.
Numerous barricades had been set up to prevent residents of what was effectively a PIRA republican ghetto (Craggan and Bogside), from entering The rest of Derry.
As to briefings, political to military and from command to ground the emphasis was very much, we need to present a show of force as since the previous summer when internment without trial was introduced there was growing dissent towards the security forces. The wrong tactic as it turned out!
Brian Dixon and howard mcsweeney1 like this
Arte et Marte
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,782
I do not think I am getting my point across very well.
I do not believe any historic cases over 20yrs should go to court, whatever they are about, memories can not be trusted however much a witness believes what they are saying is the absolute truth.
I agree Reginald that amnesty agreement was wrong and very one sided, so many atrocious acts were committed.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
so let me get this right, it was allright for the ira and other terrorists to shoot to kill or mame troops keeping the peace in troubled times, but our troops cant fire back then, with out the fear of prosecution.
