Captain Haddock
- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,000
Yes. Has brought millions worldwide out of poverty.
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Guest 1881- Registered: 16 Oct 2016
- Posts: 1,071
For the few not the many. Capitalism and Socialism are both bona-fide theories but when human beings and their greed get involved...
The reality is that all these socio-economic theories require checks and balances, left in their pure state and they are prone to abuse.
Brian Dixon and howard mcsweeney1 like this
Just because you don't take an interest in politics doesn't mean that politics won't take an interest in you. PERICLES.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,000
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Guest 1881- Registered: 16 Oct 2016
- Posts: 1,071
You need to be a subscriber to read the article. How capitalist!
I presume the article extols the virtues of Jeremy Corbyn being the 'political messiah' - he is, I should know, I've followed them all.
Just because you don't take an interest in politics doesn't mean that politics won't take an interest in you. PERICLES.
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,000
Let us overthrow the whole capitalist system one cut and past at a time your Grace?
When will Donald Trump’s supporters finally peel off? Liberals are now hoping his campaign’s apparent collusion with Russia in last year’s election will do the trick. But many Trump voters are more than just voters. They are political fans — a poorly understood modern phenomenon. Political fans reason a lot like sports or music fans, explains Cornel Sandvoss, professor of media and journalism at the UK’s Huddersfield University.
Political fandom isn’t entirely new. Margaret Thatcher had her fan base and, in 1994, Silvio Berlusconi in Italy created a party, Forza Italia, named after a football supporters’ chant. His candidates even wore Italy’s blue football shirts.
But social media gave political fandom a lift. Now supporters have spaces to express themselves, away from old po-faced wannabe-neutral political media. Partisans gather on social media to root for their candidate in a debate, almost as if it were a boxing match. Elections look ever more like sporting spectacles. No wonder that during last autumn’s US presidential “horse race”, viewing figures for gridiron’s National Football League fell: many fans had found a new sport. Trump, who is steeped in American sports, understands the crossover with politics. Recall the video he tweeted in which he appears as a wrestler pummelling the CNN logo.
Fandom works best in two-party political systems such as the US or UK, because these mimic the us-versus-them format of sports. (Coalition politics discourages fandom, because teams don’t really play against each other.) In an us-versus-them game, you can be not just a fan but an “anti-fan”, who roots against a candidate. Most voters in the US presidential election were above all anti-fans of the other party’s candidate.
American phenomena usually spread to the UK first. In a YouGov poll of Conservative voters in June’s British elections, a combined 30 per cent described their prime motivation as “anti-Labour” or against Labour’s leader, Jeremy Corbyn. Only 5 per cent said they had made a positive choice for Conservative leader Theresa May. Meanwhile, Corbynistas have a unique form of anti-fandom: their enemy-in-chief is their own party’s ex-leader Tony Blair.
Fandom gives people an identity. Sandvoss says this matters particularly as traditional sources of identity are fading: more and more adults aren’t married, don’t identify with their job, and don’t have a clear economic class, religion or trade union. Many fill that vacuum by being fans, whether it’s of Trump, the Yankees or Apple.
A child uses a teddy bear as a “transitional space” between himself and the world, said the psychoanalyst DW Winnicott. For political fans, says Sandvoss, the candidate is their teddy bear — the object that links them to the world. Sandvoss calls their fandom “libidinal-narcissistic”. The candidate’s job is to express the fans’ identity.
Fandom is also about belonging. Political fans gather at their candidate’s events amid a community of fellow fans (whom they often call “the people”). Many Trumpsters wear uniforms of “made in China” team merchandise, just like US sports fans. In the UK, Corbyn’s impromptu rally at last month’s Glastonbury music festival was an event unprecedented in British political history.
Like music fans, political fans prefer heroes with star quality. They rarely respond to parties, or to uncharismatic politicians such as Hillary Clinton, François Hollande and May. Someone like George HW Bush probably couldn’t get elected today.
Some Trumpsters and Corbynistas care about changing government policy: about building Trump’s wall, or nationalising British industries. But for most political fans, policy is secondary. Joan C Williams, author of White Working Class, explains: “You don’t go, ‘I like the Giants because I think Timmy’s pitch is awesome.’ You go, ‘I like the Giants because I frigging love the Giants!’”
That’s why many Corbynistas waved away the question of his electability. What they cared about most was not remaking Britain, but finding an identity as fans. For similar reasons, last year’s referendum on Brexit largely ignored boring policy issues. Most voters simply chose a team. Only now are many Leave voters discovering that their vote probably entails leaving the single market, not to mention such obscure organisations as Euratom (Europe’s nuclear research programme) or Europe’s single aviation market.
The traditional rhetoric of fandom is life-long loyalty: “We’ll support you evermore.” Hardcore fans proudly stick with their team in adversity. When diehard Trumpsters are goaded to drop their man over mounting evidence of collusion with Russia, they think: not now when my team needs me most. Diehard fans perceive the world as fans. They cannot see their own team’s fouls, and so presume that referees are biased against them.
However, Sandvoss cautions, most fans are in fact casual supporters. The majority don’t go to games (or rallies), don’t buy the merchandise, and switch on only when their team is winning. Corbyn is now enjoying that effect, soaring in polls after beating expectations in the election.
But if their hero disappoints, casual fans will switch off (see Trump’s approval ratings) and find something else to support. The NFL football season starts in September.
howard mcsweeney1 likes this
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Guest 1881- Registered: 16 Oct 2016
- Posts: 1,071
Lacks the certain pink rinse of the famed FT pages, nonetheless, I shall remember you in my next orisons, oh Capt, my Capt.
An interesting article, though I'd suggest that many new members joined Labour not as out and out 'Corbynistas' but to realign the party to its key principles (and thus close the door on its New Labour, neoliberal 'phase').
Just because you don't take an interest in politics doesn't mean that politics won't take an interest in you. PERICLES.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,890
Hi
I think at end of day Corbyn has and did engage with the electorate t may fell well short
Labour needed a kick,its now going to be interesting where they head next
Guest 1881 likes this
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,000
Wonderful thing socialism. Glad the economy of Venezuela has more 'fairness' and 'equality of opportunity' etc.
No wonder there's riots on the streets when neither rich nor poor now have had the 'opportunity' to even buy toilet rolls for past few years!
https://www.cato.org/blog/venezuela-reaches-final-stage-socialism-no-toilet-paper
Go Corbyn!
Go Socialism!
Go 'for the many not the few'! ***
Go nationalisation!
Go free university education!
Go 'more money for our (sic) NHS!
Go #WelcomeRefugees!
*** But not, of course, for his own son!
http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/825052/jeremy-corbyn-labour-party-john-mcdonnell-staff-son-seb-corbyn
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,000
Nice to see that Diane Abbott got that job in Cheltenham!
(Seriously why are GCHQ using this as an image?)
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Reginald Barrington
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 17 Dec 2014
- Posts: 3,239
Common knowledge all people who hide their sexual orientation have fat calves, that's how you can tell don't ya know! Not sure what it has to do with mental health though?
John Buckley likes this
Arte et Marte
Weird Granny Slater
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 7 Jun 2017
- Posts: 3,024
'Pass the cow dung, my dropsy's killing me' - Heraclitus
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,000
Bad news for Jezza. The Conservatives carry on improving life for the many and NOT just the few? Austerity my arse!
ONS: Average household disposable income – after tax, benefits and inflation – rose by 1.8% to £27,200 for financial year 2016-17.
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
The benchmark of "doing alright" to most in our society since the 60s has been home ownership, however humble that it is. Over the course of the last 20 years this has fallen from 60% to 20% amongst the thirty somethings which leaves them feeling they have no stake in things and know that ever rising rents mean they have no chance of saving up a deposit to get on the housing ladder.
John Buckley likes this
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,000
Howard. The obsession with home ownership is one of the problems in society, not one of the solutions.
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Weird Granny Slater- Location: Dover
- Registered: 7 Jun 2017
- Posts: 3,024
Captain Haddock wrote:The obsession with home ownership is one of the problems in society, not one of the solutions.
Blimey! I agree with this! I'll hence and nail my head to a roofbeam.
'Pass the cow dung, my dropsy's killing me' - Heraclitus
Guest 745- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
it will be unaffordable housing that will one day sink the conservative party.
nothing like the Bailiffs to re-focus your voting habits
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,000
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Guest 1881- Registered: 16 Oct 2016
- Posts: 1,071
Agreed. That key quote: "
the UN Human Rights Office described this week as a ‘widespread and systematic use of excessive force’" is very disconcerting. In 2015/16 nearly 35,000 cases of excessive force cited were recorded, but then again that was the UK police (source: IPCC) ...
https://www.ipcc.gov.uk/sites/default/files/Documents/research_stats/complaints_statistics_2015_16.pdf
I don't mean to be trite. There is a significant issue in Venezuela. Whether there is a case for rounding on the Labour leadership is another matter though.
Just because you don't take an interest in politics doesn't mean that politics won't take an interest in you. PERICLES.
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,000
Excessive force? Plod have (unfortunately) turned into a load of softie leftie social workers spending half their time telling tales on the each other! Personally I blame the Police and Criminal Evidence Act (PACE).
I still reminisce occasionally with colleagues from a previous employment when we were out and about with the Met trying to get them to at least try ringing the doorbell before knocking down the door. (They thought that since they were working for a different enforcement authority they had a Carte Blanche).
Much prefer the French way. No-one buggers around with the CRS. And I've also had some interesting times out with the Dutch Marechausee!
I also remember seeing someone undergoing a quick 'stop and search' in Paris. He did at runner. They shot him. Last I saw he was holding his arm with blood covering his fingers as he tried to stop the bleeding while awaiting the ambulance. The gendarme had his notebook out and was still questioning him!
Happy days.
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
