Guest 693- Registered: 12 Nov 2009
- Posts: 1,266
31 January 2010
14:0839216From the local press I understand that ASDA seem to have lost patience with the DTIZ and don't want to be involved any longer. If it's true, then I can fully understand that - this development seems to have been coming to Dover for longer than I care to remember; when my wife started at Dover Town Council (in 1999) one of her first jobs was to put together an exhibition in Maison Dieu House detailing the proposed DTIZ plans. That was 11 years ago, and it seems as though the only thing to have changed since then is that the bus station has been demolished, so I wouldn't blame ASDA if they did walk away from this seeming non-event.
Does anyone in authority know if the rumours are true, and if ASDA are really walking away?
If it is true, how does this leave the DTIZ and the plans? Perhaps if ASDA are no longer to be involved, the proposed site for a new store could be amended to become the site for a new Leisure Centre. On Dover Locals, Kalvin Clapson (Vista Leisure's Centre Manager) has said that the old leisure centre needs investment to the extent where it's probably more feasible to build a new one, and I would suggest that the DTIZ would be the ideal place to build one. Town Centre location, visible to visitors from a main thoroughfare, convenient for locals without transport, and an excellent opportunity to regenerate our town in a way that will be a huge benefit to many. Why, they could even build some public toilets in there!
The new Morrisons demonstrates clearly to me that Town Centre locations for facilities that are wanted by the public will be much better for all concerned than moving everything to Whitfield. Isn't it time to reappraise the DTIZ and make it slightly different? Do we really need another supermarket?
True friends stab you in the front.
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
31 January 2010
14:1739220Don`t know much about all this, but I think another supermarket, and in town at that, would be very detrimental to all the other shops around.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
31 January 2010
14:3139222Andy,again I do have a feeling that the D.D.C.have missed the boat again and this not for the first time,they have a very bad planning dept ,and how many times have we seen this in the past,companys wishing to bring new developments to Dover even in bads times but can not get pass the Planning dept and this cost them as a company many £1000s so unless we see the planning dept as it is today done away with and a new one take its place with forward thinking Dover will not move forward and we might even see it going backward more.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
31 January 2010
14:4039223i read that report, interpreted it differently, inasmuch that DDC were outing ASDA.
i do not see anyone other than a supermarket being an anchor for the developement, should it ever happen.
Guest 693- Registered: 12 Nov 2009
- Posts: 1,266
31 January 2010
14:4639226I wouldn't want to point fingers, Vic, but all I'm asking is where the DTIZ stands if ASDA have pulled out....if ASDA have walked away, could we perhaps build the desperately needed new leisure centre where ASDA was to have been sited?
True friends stab you in the front.
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,698
31 January 2010
15:5939231I am not sure Howard that it really matterrs whether ASDA walked away due to the ongoing delays or DDC pulled the plug on them because they were delaying. The fact is that the whole DTIZ is now in limbo as it has no anchor tenant, one option would be to replace the superstore with a new leisure centre, as Andy suggests, however that can and only be built with DDC support and money (at least in part) and they have shown little or no desire to invest their/our money in central Dover. An alternative would be for them to seek an alternative company to take over the ASDA part of the development, but times are bad and I suspect they might not get any takers, though I do understand they have had fruitful talks with Waitrose in the past. The final alternative would be to go back to the drawing board and replan it to provide a different blend of small/medium sized retail outlets, housing and civic amenities.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
31 January 2010
18:1839245Ross
your correct it doesn't mater which party withdrew, ASDA were demanding everything there way, did they ever realy want to come to Dover? maybe morrisons coming dover finished them off
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
31 January 2010
19:0639250but it would be nice to see somthing down there apart from weeds,run down buildings etc.
Guest 664- Registered: 23 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,039
31 January 2010
19:3339257I know for a fact that DDC Economic Development Officer back in 2003-4 (don't know if he's still in situ) said that he just saw the Dover job as a stepping stone. How do I know? Because I was friends at the time with a chief Planning Officer from another East Kent council, to whom he made the remark.
If our own EDO appeared to hold us in contempt, it is no wonder that things fail to happen.
Guest 664- Registered: 23 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,039
31 January 2010
19:4239258Moreover...ASDA are probably waiting to see how Morrison's fare. Their procrastination has cost them an opportunity.
Either way the whole scenario is a farce. DDC are right to get tough with ASDA; let's find out how badly they want to come to Dover. I question whether there is a need for another supermarket now anyway.
Set them a deadline and if they can't or won't come, write them off, accept 11 years (!) have been wasted and move on. Of course this should have been done many years ago.
How this can have all happened is as criminal as it is sad. No doubt little vested interests have profited greatly from the endless delays; lawyers et al coining it in, moving at a snail's pace to reap fees while petty little egos selfishly quibble and the town suffers.
I would be interested to learn the details of why exactly it has taken so long. It's not an Act of God after all. We're just the public though aren't we? Anyone would think we lived in a democracy.
31 January 2010
20:1739265Let's be realistic. There is no way that ASDA will have anything to do with the development of DTIZ.
There's not enough punters in Dover to buy even more 'stuff' and there is certainly not enough 'pull' in Dover to drag people like me to risk getting stuck in Operation Stack, when I can go to Westwood, or even ASDA at Ashford and have an excellent day out saving money at McArthur Glen (the latter of which, could of course have been based at Whitfield, if it wasn't for the idiots on our Council who turned down planning permission because it would affect the vibrant shopping centre that we know as Dover).
As for a new Leisure Centre, dream on........
In my three decades in Dover District I have never managed to get my head around how both the locals and their intellectually (though rarely politically) challenged representatives at Fort Whitfield manage to get it wrong on every single issue.
They either spend a fortune on consultants on stuff which will never get off the ground DTIZ/Betteshanger Business Park, or back lost causes e.g. keeping Miners in Kent/Marines in Deal and now opposing the inevitable privatization of the Port of Dover.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
31 January 2010
21:35392731) i cannot see anyone funding a leisure centre in the DTIZ.
2) i very much doubt that waitrose would come here, they look for spending power far beyond what dover can offer.
3) i believe that ASDA always were committed(remember the fashion show) just that they have now realised that the site is unlikely to ever become fully vacant despite what councillor scales pronounces from on high.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
31 January 2010
21:4339278So the jewel in the crown, all eggs in one basket, is now not to happen if HOWARD is correct.
So what now??
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
31 January 2010
21:5439281the truth is that no-one knows keith.we keep getting big announcements, we were told that there was just one last piece in the jigsaw of compulsory purchase.
in my opinion the weeds will continue to grow, we will get more advertising hoardings from the likes of dover pride, the public more disheartened.
i am sorry to say this(roger will disagree vehmently) but the will is just not there.
other areas have reached similar depths and said enough is enough and dragged themselves back up, there is no sign of it here.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
31 January 2010
21:5739283How sad with a delightful sea front, this will be a disaster for Dover
ROGER/.PAUL/NIGEL/BARRYW/SUE
Tell me we are all wrong and plans are fruitful
1 February 2010
08:5839299I have many times stated that Asda was totally wrong in this location. Again profit would go out of the town and they would have a stranglehold on that area. The town now has all the supermarkets it needs.
A sports centre needs to be on a green field site with space and maybe some outside pursuits. Put it near the new schools and a new hospital on the whitfield sites and on the DTIZ plan a development of lanes, with small shops and overhead parking so that we catch the millions of passers by and get them to consider stopping overnight. We can have a Brighton shopping area here quite easily - has someone looked at the small shops that are doing well?
It not only is possible but I have evidence that it could be financed and built. Indeed I have a client that has been waiting years to get his development built ( around bench street) but has been halted by this indecision.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
1 February 2010
09:3539302What a strange thread when it was reported that DDC is getting fed up with delays from Asda.
Some people here should catch up with what exactly has been said insread of running off into their own fantasy land.
Guest 693- Registered: 12 Nov 2009
- Posts: 1,266
1 February 2010
11:0039304Barry
That's a rather negative post, I'm sorry to say. All people want to know is what is to become of the much-heralded DTIZ; we read stories in the paper, yet nothing ever seems to get done. 11 years after the project was initialised, isn't it about time we were put in the picture?
Some input from Whitfield would be nice.
True friends stab you in the front.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
1 February 2010
11:1039307Whitfield did produce some news in the last DX Andy. That is where they 'outed' Asda (to use Howards expression) for causing the latest delays. You then produce a post accusing DDC of delays. DDC therefore did put us in the picture.
Guest 693- Registered: 12 Nov 2009
- Posts: 1,266
1 February 2010
11:2739309Sorry, Barry, I don't read that offensive rag. But thank you for putting me in the picture. I just happen to believe that 11 years is inexcusable, and I don't believe all that DDC say. Toiletgate reinforces my cynicism; according to the Palais de Whitfield, Nigel Collor's closure of our loos was all the Town Council's fault and we should leave the poor man alone. Sounds like a Labour spin doctor's drivel to me.
True friends stab you in the front.