Two fox attacks in a week and three very young children badly mauled:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/10251349.stm
Perhaps it's time to seriously consider a major cull of this pest.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Here here Sid.
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
Sad to read that today on here, but hunting won`t be permitted round housing estates, and that`s where this incident happened I believe. This is another human created event, and at the end of the day, we`re to blame. Having driven round London and it`s outer suburbs many times in the course of my work, the grey fox is more common than the rabbit, relative to sighting`s. The traditional red fox belongs out in the countryside, (or what`s left of it). Get rid of them and then we`ll be culling the rabbit population. It goes on. Sad as the above case is, it`s us, always has been and always will be.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
I am with Colin on this one ,it is a big no to Fox hunting I have worked in London for over forty years off and on and there are alot of Foxs, but do away with the plastic bags etc and the left over takeway food which is just left on the pathways and roadsides and that will help in a big way to keep the foxs at bay.
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
Exactly Vic, but I fear it may be too late, and if their rubbish picking`s disappear from the streets, they could take a liking to human flesh. We don`t know what a desperately hungry fox may do, but the above incident could be a warning.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
Guest 657- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,037
I am with Colin and Vic on this.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Two seperate problems here, urban foxes and those in the countryside.
In the interests of animal welfare it is far better to control this vermin by hunting. The silly and unworkable anti-hunting laws should need to be scrapped.
The urban foxes need to be culled with poison or shooting.
Guest 693- Registered: 12 Nov 2009
- Posts: 1,266
Urban foxes have been around as long as cities have been around. Yes, their population could withstand a cull - their numbers are greater than ever - but I'd not want them poisoned because that would be cruel and would inevitably mean other animals (cats, dogs etc) eating the poison too.
Banning the hunting of foxes in the countryside should never have happened; it was always a politically motivated piece of legislation, seen as stopping Tory gentry from enjoying their rural blood sports. What it actually did was to interfere with a long-established rural eco system based on the food chain, as well as lead to hundreds of dogs being put down and those employed by hunts being made redundant; in fact, the whole thing backfired on an idealistic, short-sighted Labour government by making poorly paid country workers unemployed, typical of Labour acting against the people they purport to represent.
I see a separate news report on the BBC this morning that the age old fear of badgers spreading bovine TB is back, and that a cull is to take place; how many more animals have to be killed before man learns that nature is the best way forward? On this thread alone, there is talk of culling foxes, rabbits and badgers....isn't it simply better to let nature take its course without trying to micro manage something we actually know very little about?
I hear the population in China is very high at the moment......a cull should sort it out. If that's nonsense (which it is), so is trying to cull everything else.
True friends stab you in the front.
Unregistered User
"The urban foxes need to be culled with poison or shooting." where is the fun in that? surely there is a more pleasurable way to kill them for the foxhunting set!
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
Barry, in the interests of animal welfare the foxes should be left alone and not killed at all! Why is the ban any more unworkable than any other law that prohibits someone from doing something?
Andy, I think you raise some good points about the implications of the ban, e.g. the loss of employment. It is possible to make vague defences for fox hunting but as you say this is really about 'the Tory gentry enjoying their rural blood sports'. And let's face it, if anything is 'silly' it is this 'sport'. I have little or no concern for the welfare of foxes and appreciate the problems they can create. To suggest a bunch of horse mounted gentry with a pack of hounds to kill one fox is a solution is simply ridiculous. I find it an insult that the supporters of fox hunting even bother to conjure up defences of this mindless activity. Fox hunting is about tradition, nothing more and tradition is an excuse for nothing. Or are they trying to tell us it is impossible to keep the fox population down without wearing a green or red jacket, riding a horse and blowing a bugle....it's just laughable.
It is true that dogs have had to put down, but this won't happen again, job done. As for the people made redundant by the ban, why don't the good people of middle rural Britain employ them to keep the fox population down? Trap them or shoot them but we don't need to bring this silly 'sport' back in the name of tradition or child safety!
Guest 664- Registered: 23 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,039
Having grown up on a farm I have to say the hunting ban was another of Labour's mistakes. Soft-headed, urbancentric thinking with no understanding of the countryside.
The truth is this was more about class war - toffbashing by the so-called socialist government. Foxes need to be controlled somehow.
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
Yes they do Andrew, shoot them.
This is about bashing something that is inefficient. It just seems to be an obsession of 'toffs' to defend it.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
hardly a class issue, dog fighting is the total preserve of the urban working class.
i find it strange that people get pleasure out of torturing dumb animals, whether it be a pursued fox, baited badger or exhausted stag.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
DT1 - a typical townie answer. Animal welfare does not mean leaving them alone. Foxes are vermin and viscous vermin at that, who kill indiscriminately. If you have ever seen how a fox leaves a chicken run you would change your view. When young I did see it and hope never to do so again.
It is not a matter of 'to kill or not to kill' them, it is about the best way to control their numbers.
Shoot them by all means, let the wounded fox crawl away to die slowly. By all means let the rifle shooters kill foxes that are young fit and healthy and which would usually escape the hunt.
The hunt tends to get the sick and old, giving them a comparatively merciful and quick end, survival of the fittest. It is also these old a sick foxes that tend to go for helpless prey like penned up chickens, often braving human predators because of their hunger.
That is why hunting should be restored - for the sake of animals, including the foxes themselves.
You again return to your characteristic toff bashing. You should really get away from this outdated left wing bigotry it does not suit you and perpetuates a myth.
Guest 693- Registered: 12 Nov 2009
- Posts: 1,266
Cruel it might be Barry, but it's nature. Foxes are part of the food chain and need to eat just as you and I do. Hunting foxes with hounds IS a sport and doesn't keep fox numbers down to the degree required, let's be honest about it. That said, fox hunting was a part of country life for more reasons than simply hunting foxes and, as Andrew says, was urbancentric soft-headed thinking.
I'm against blood sports because I'm an animal lover - and that includes Howard's very valid point about dog fighting. All this points to Labour looking at the countryside through uncomprehending eyes and meddling with something they knew nothing of. That legislation should be repealed asap and employment restored where it's badly needed in the shires; yes, that does mean that foxes are going to be hunted for sport. If that seems contra to my being against blood sports, it is.....but there's a price to pay for all beliefs. I'm no Tory gentry in love with killing foxes, but then I'm not into breeding dogs to rip other dogs' throats out either. To me, the issue of blood sports crosses the class divide, as Howard says; to me, the issue is one of keeping the countryside managed as it always has been and keeping people in jobs. As I say, there's a price to pay for that.
True friends stab you in the front.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
They are all Gods creatures and therefore have as much right to live on this planet as we do!! The answer is keep your patio doors shut and locked to prevent foxes from entering your home....as an aside it would also prevent burglars from taking your possessions.
What amazes me is that we (i.e. man) assume to have the power of what should live and die whether it be the poor fox or the manic depressive murderer.What makes man so superior? All life is precious and we should find ways to neuter the foxes to reduce their population.
Hunting of which I have some experience is nothing short of barbaric and excuse for a pile of Hooray Henrys and Henrietta's to drink port and brandy ,ride roughshod over the countryside and get pissed ,all in the name of 'sport'.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 657- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,037
Couldn't have put it better Marek *claps*.
Im am totally against any hunting, its a posh persons blood sports and all should be banned and now we have the farmers moaning wanting badger culls, its circle of nature . we should all live in harmony in the land as we all have a right and a reson to be here.
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
I don't think I have bashed any 'toffs' in my post Barry. I'm not having a go at the people just this rather antiquated pastime (which is all it is). That being said it does seem to be be the pursuit of individuals from a certain social standing. Trust me if this were a working class activity it would not make it any less silly, all those people to kill one fox...come on you must agree this has very little to do with controlling the fox population and everything to do with the tradition of a certain class. The banning of the hunts is a class statement, but it doesn't detract from the ridiculous nature of the act, which is my point.
Although a 'townie' I have been shooting with friends from the farming community, mostly for rabbits. It's a pretty effective way of killing things and you don't really see them stumble off with a flesh wound. If it's good enough for the young fit foxes surely it's good enough for the old ones too. I love the fact that you suggest that by targeting the sick and old it almost doing the fox a favour...almost like fox euthanasia. Heading out into open country side during hunt season must be like booking into a swiss clinic for them. Survival of the fittest? I don't think Darwin would too impressed with this logic of killing the weak to let the fit thrive in an attempt to control a population.
'That is why hunting should be restored - for the sake of animals, including the foxes themselves'
You may as well say: 'Bring back fox hunting for the sake of the foxes if nothing else'.
As for protecting animals from other animals we are in crazy teritory. I'm with Aristotle on this one and animals live for their own sake, so will act without reason...and kill chickens. To then impose our morality onto them is pointless.
I've never seen a chicken massacre Barry but I'm sure it involve much the same thing as the end result in a fox hunt...an animal getting ripped limb from limb by another.
I have very little concern for chicken or fox welfare but I do for human behaviour and this it is silly to suggest this activity is anything other than a pastime that some find fun.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Fox hunting, shooting birds and mammals, fishing, hare coursing - these are and have been done for centuries by people of all backgrounds and classes for fun, sport and food since time immoriable. There is nothing wrong with it. Dog fighting is not the same and a complete red herring.
I see a lot of ignorant class bigotry said here by people who should know better.
I have never been fox hunting and never want to, shooting either, but I have been hare coursing with my father as a child. He raced greyhounds and would take them for a 'taste of the hare' every now and then. It was fascinating seeing how the hounds worked the hare, with the hares escaping most of the time incidentally. There was nothing 'toff' about hare coursing, it was done by the good old working classes and yes, it was fun. To think that such an innocent country sport should be banned by an interfering nannying government is appalling.
It is pathetic the way so many townies view animals with excessive sentimentality, Disney and Beatrix Potter have a lot to answer for....