Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
Alec
Thanks for the clarification.
I stand corrected.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
I`ve just started using the buses again, and have witnessed pushchairs turned away a few times. Looks to me like, at the end of the day, it`s down to the driver how many, and please don`t any driver say to me about being unsafe with more than three buggies when these new buses are licenced to carry 24 passenger`s standing! Would be very interesting to see one of those lab tests with a 40mph head on crash with 24 people standing on an already fully seated bus! Anyway, back to bus passes, and as travel by bus was new to me last year, (I can still drive if I want to), I found it interesting the number of elderly getting on and my wife or sister asking how they ever make a profit. Never thought about it before, but didn`t take long to answer, they must be subsidised.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
The point is Colin, the bus is making a scheduled journey, therefore going anyway. If it travels empty it costs just the same as when full of beige passengers.
I think the scheme should be amended immediately in two ways:
1. You have to be at full retirement age to receive a travel pass (restricted to ff-peak travel).
2. The pass should include rail travel.
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
I don`t somehow think free rail travel would ever come about Sid. A much more expensive proposition, and one hell of alot more subsidy required. Railways are traditionally more expensive than roads. Bus companies as far as I`m aware, pay nothing towards the cost of roads, railway companies on the other hand have to pay Network Rail for the use of their tracks.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
colin,bus companys pay road tax.so fore pays money for the up keep of roads they use.
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
I know it`s £330 per year Brian, what I`m really getting at is that the railway companies pay one hell of alot more for the use of the rails. You`re right above by the way with the road tax.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
But the point Colin is very simple, the train is going anyway whether it be empty or full, so there is NO cost to taking the grey brigade off-peak. In fact, the trains at least sell refreshments on some routes, so that provides and earning opportunity they wouldn't otherwise have.
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
I know what you mean Sid from all the empty seats we see on buses and trains, but the point is, energy isn`t free. Has to be paid for. A car full to capacity will cost alot more to run in fuel than an empty, or half empty vehicle as I`m sure you know. Trains charge alot now for journey`s, but just imagine seats filled up with free travel passengers, and fayre paying passengers standing for lack of room. I know a number of people with free bus passes who`d love to travel on the train, with all the new destination`s previously out of reach. I personally believe the railways wouldn`t cope.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
Colin, I'm not sure a train pulls more energy to carry 20 pax as opposed to 200. Is there evidence to that fact?
As for the car, I don't expend much more in fuel, if any, to carry passengers.
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
The laws of physics Sid. Energy isn`t free. I don`t know figure`s for picking up power for trains, but at the end of the day, energy isn`t free.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
rail travel will never be included for free, colin is right.
i shudder to think how much it costs in london where the over 60's have had free use for many years.
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
I didn`t even know that Howard. What I do know is though that when the railways were built into London, there were certain clauses for allowing worker`s to travel about for free, or maybe Londoner`s? I`ll have to look that one up. There is still free staff travel on the railways, but it was stopped in the late 90s sometime for new entrant`s. Cost`s the railway companies a small fortune for this free staff travel. What was then my company, EWS, once spoke of buying the free travel from us in the late 90s, but then they found how much it would cost! Never heard anymore.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,833
Melissa,
Just be grateful you can get on a bus without having to fold down your pushchair and carry child etc as we did in my day.
I am sure a lot of services would have been cut if it was not for the subsidies the companies get from bus-pass use.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,833
Colin,
I get free rail travel because my late husband used to work for Sealink. When he was alive we never used the free rail travel bacause we went by car. Since he died I have used my free travel no more than an average of six times a year. October last year was the last time I used it so I doubt if the rail companies loose that much because the train runs even without me being on it.
I wish I could drive then I wouldn't use it at all.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
Jan, my mum is 88 and my dad was also on the ferries, hence her free travel, and she never uses it at all. I get free travel because I work on the railway, and over the years, I haven`t much used mine either, often preferring to go by car. My point above regarding costing the railway companies money is, that regardless of whether I or anyone else on the railway uses their free travel or not, the railway company they work for has to cough up the money for the entitlement to use that free travel privilage.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
Accept the laws of physics, but a train weighs many tons, whereas passengers weigh very little in comparison. A train can weigh as much as 250 - 500 tons and the energy required to move that load won't change much if you add 250 passengers. At 10 stone each you are only adding 15.6 tons to the weight.
I acknowledge it will require some extra power, but not that much to make a significant difference to fuel costs. I also think 250 free passengers on every off-peak train is very unlikely
Trains and buses run whatever, as has been pointed out. Also - it isn'y just the elders and/or the younsgters who can be abusive! These days everyone and his/her dog starts as soon as their needs are not met instantly. Bus and train travel is unpleasant, noisy, at times scary, smelly, intrusive, and a pain in the arse. That is mainly because of the behaviour of the other passengers.
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
Again, I know exactly what your getting at Sid, I`ve always thought about those empty seats over the years, but if those seats are being occupied, they must be paid for, regardless of whether it`s free staff travel, pensioner`s or government subsidies. I do not think that any government would ever consider subsidising the over 65 population of this country for free rail travel, and regarding the off peak trains, obviously some routes are going to be more patronised than others, and I`m pretty sure that the cities would be favourite destination`s.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
Bern, jump on the new High speed train from Dover, it`s a new experience. I shall be using the train more now as it`s so much quicker getting to London and beyond. (Nothing to do with free travel, but better than all that stop/start at stations on the conventional route trains).
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
the high speed train seems to be a roaring success by all accounts, not heard a bad word said about it.
if it is good enough for our new member it is good enough for me.
must try it sometime.