20 August 2010
08:0766289Sid - what a ridiculous statement! Like all Catholics are paedophiles, and all non-Catholics ahve wide open minds and free will............
So - what you all seem to be saying is that principles mean a hill of beans and people should all conform to whatever atheistic or governmentally approved doctrine if they really, truly, definitely just want to help people to adopt? I abhor prejudice and in particular homophobic and racist prejudice, but I also abhor prejudice against those who have principles that do not conform to the mainstream even if I don't like their principles. That organisation isn't preaching hatred or violence towards gays, just conforming to the religious ethical morees of their group, without condemning anyone. I don't like it, but I don't think we should shut them dow because of it, and the bottom line is that is what will happen.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
20 August 2010
09:2966292sid does intend to walk into doors.
a british baptist minister has been arrested in the states yesterday for child molesting.
i seem to remember sid saying that he was a baptist lay minister at one time.
the truth is that perverts can be found anywhere inside or outside religion.
20 August 2010
12:4066313Indeed there are child molesting perverts and sickos everywhere in all walks of life. Sadly, the Catholic church seems to have a disproportionate number of these individuals, and their cases then systematically covered-up by the Catholic establishment, and a fund set up for wholesale quick and easy settlements of such cases, speaks volumes of a church that is rotten to the core and deserves to die by its own sordid sword. The main trapping of this religion is guilt, which is usually spawned in a strong anti-sexual agenda, and it seems to breed perverts.
Apart from that it's all fine I guess, apart from the god bits.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,835
20 August 2010
13:4366318So if a group is beneficial to society they should not have to obey the newly made anti prejudice laws of this land.
They should be allowed to continue with their views even if they are morally and legally wrong.
Is this what some of you really believe.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
20 August 2010
13:4666319i have a feeling that when rick expires he will be greeted by that chap with the horns, pointed tail and fork together with his interesting and amusing selection of torture instruments.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
20 August 2010
15:2066325Hey look everyone
All catholics are not bad people just because we have decided to believe in God that others don't believe existed. Nor are we anti- gays or anti anything. Live and let live so long as it doesn't encroach on your space or my space. We live in a free democratic society which allows me or anyone else to pursue their own religious or non religious beliefs.That is what makes this country great. I don't knock anyone else's religious beliefs so please don't mock mine.
Rick is free to follow his own ideaology, it may not be mine, but so what. What is far more important is that the children we bring into this world should have some form of good parental guidance which is sadly lacking these days. We should all live in the hope that the next generation will not make the mistakes that 'we' have committed and become good law abiding decent caring individuals.
And now after that sermon please turn to page 63 in your hymn book.... Faith of our Fathers......lol
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
20 August 2010
16:2166328Good posting Marek, but imagine the uproar if it were an Islamist organisation breaking the laws of equality etc. There'd hardly be a dissenting Christian voice condemning them.
As for religion subjugating the masses Bern, I notice the subtlety of "Western" in your response. But let's try expanding our horizon and boy, what a different view we have of things. It is not hard to see the "isms" keeping normal people in their place by fear or any other means to avoid them getting above their station. Of course, if we count Bosnia, Serbia, Croatia etc., as Western we have recent proof of religious and racial intolerance too.
I don't subscribe to paganism or atheism, I am, as Howard points out, a Baptist, but under no circumstances do I let my church or it's dogma rule my actions or beliefs, unlike too many folks do.
20 August 2010
17:0866332Then what is its point, Sid?
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
20 August 2010
17:3966338sid
i did a recce of islamic adoption websites, they were very vague about their requirements, probably deliberately.
as a christian would you raise a voice?
as an undecided i certainly would.
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,701
21 August 2010
10:4666462Of course all Catholics are not bad people, just as all protestants, or Jews, or Muslims, or Sikhs etc. are not bad people.
Unfortunately, the hierarchy of their religions too often forgets their scriptural teachings and does things that are frankly unacceptable, potentially illegal etc. This has always been the problem with organised religion.
Paul whilst the religions of the West were significantly marginalised by secularism during the 60s to 90s, this was not true of particularly Middle Eastern religions and we have in the last 10 years seen a significant growth in fundamentalism in both the western and African branches of Christianity. This rise in fundamentalism would not be worthy of note if it was not for the fact that it is starting to affect and influence government policy in the US in particular, but to a lesser extent many other western nations, this coupled with the overtly religious governments in much of the Middle East, Africa and Asia is going to lead to significant increases in friction, unrest and possibly even wars. So for a large part of the world Marx was and still is right.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
21 August 2010
12:2866489Religion and state in the so-called "developing nations" remains centuries behind the developments in the West, which renders them more medieval than western cultures. For good or bad no comment - just a perception.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
21 August 2010
19:5166560getting back to the main thrust of the argument, the left handers adoption service was highly successful at getting children into loving homes, extremely sad to see its demise.
whilst people berate the catholics for their stance on this issue we would do well to remember that all of their hospices take anyone irrespective of race, religion or sexuality.
21 August 2010
20:0566561Thanks Howard.
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,835
21 August 2010
21:4166576I think it is a shame this thread developed into an arguement about religion which has little to do with the subject in question.
It was more a case of an organisation thinking they were above the law, that I believe most liberal thinkers would agree with, surely only the narrow minded would be against this law.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
21 August 2010
21:5066578have to disagree vehemently jan, i see the subject as distressed and traumatised children going to loving homes.
the thread was initiated by paul on the subject of a catholic organisation, the same could be applied to a muslim, atheist or anyone else that had the same strict procedures to ensure that a vulnerable youngster would have the advantage of a protective family.
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,835
21 August 2010
22:1966592Howard they can still go to a loving home, there are other organisations who are happy to follow the law.
I still think it is a shame that this thread developed into religion bashing, even though I have no time for religion others do have strong faith.
BTW speaking from personal experience not all adoptive homes are loving but thank goodness most are.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,701
21 August 2010
22:2866597Howard this is not about the ability of the adoption service to continue what they are doing, they are perfectly at liberty to do that by complying with the laws of the land, this story is about them and other religious organisations belief that their belief system carries a greater moral weight than the law of the land and therefore allows them to ignore the law.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
21 August 2010
22:3766601jan and ross
we will have to agree to disagree on this subject.
i am not comfortable with the left handers rules, but other organisations fit in and work under other provisos.
22 August 2010
02:3066609I thought every good Christian would know about the "pay to Rome that which is Rome's" in the Bible. This organisation obviously didn't think Bible teachings applied to them. But then again, this is a sect that chooses to exclude a number of books from the bible on the grounds they do not fit their dogma.
22 August 2010
08:4566619Not sure how anyone could think this would not be about religion given the subject: religious adherence. So, if there are so many other organisations who can step into th breach and find loving homes for kids, why are there so many still festering in what amounts to custodial care? The reduction of even one organisation able to match kids with parents is a significant loss - to us but more importantly to kids.
What it really comes down to is not whether or not the organisation is prepared to compromise it's ethics but if our society will compromise in order to benefit the kids. Which is more important?