Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
Just got back from Cyprus, so haven't posted for a while.
The Norwegian Jewel is indeed a great ship and will use Dover for the summer - it's so good in fact, that Jean and I are going on a cruise on it at the end of May - to the Baltic States and St. Petersburg.
It is true that we don't encourage people to come into Dover as much as we should, but we are restrained by the very cruise companies that visit Dover.
As has been said many times, the cruise companies make a large fortune on their day excursions, which I don't deny them, but those who would just like to visit Dover are hampered by the fact that the cruise-welcome group have been told by those very same cruise companies NOT to be pro-active, but to wait behind their desk until a cruise passenger approaches them and asks if they have any information on Dover.
This is completely wrong, absolutely completely wrong. It's not difficult to see who is walking through in a determined way to get on their excursion and who is just ambling through looking for what to do and how to do it; these are the people the cruise welcome group should be talking to.
The cruise welcome group must be allowed to be pro-active, but the cruise lines are adamant - just be passive.
The Market Square has Horace Holyer on cruise days directing and helping people find out what they can see and do - and he does a great job, but by the time they have found the Market Square, they are probably worn out.
There is a bus service that collects people from the terminal and brings them to the market square, I believe it also goes up to the Castle, but we have much more to see than just the Castle and so funds should be found to underwrite a local tourist bus to take people on a round-robin tour visiting the local places we have.
Roger
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
we had that open top bus that ran from easter to the end of summer.
why did it stop?
it ran the full tour of our sights, but also hada a fare structure for those that only wanted a certain destination.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
It didn't have enough passengers to pay for it Howard, that was the problem.
As far as I was aware, it had a flat rate that took people round to most of Dover's historic sites and attractions - people could hop on and off where ever they wanted to.
It could/should have been extended to take in places like the Transport Museum and Crabble Corn Mill.
Following on from a Dover Pride Tourism and Castle Connections review/survey a couple of years ago, they came out with two "quick-fixes", one was to introduce new "finger" signs around the Town in both French and English (I believed at the time this was being done with Interreg money between Dover and Calais Towns); the other quick fix was an urgent return of the site-seeing bus.
This never got off the ground because if was felt this was too expensive - may it was for one body to pay, but Dover Pride is made up of partnerships; I can't believe that those partners could not have been approached to help with funding - maybe they were, but no one heard anything; the initiative for what is was worth, died peacefully in someone's waste bucket.
Roger
From Keef: "Dover is lucky to get all these cruise liners
do we really encourage them to visit the Town?"
Of course we don't Keef, to echo what DaveL said.
And quite frankly, until such time as there's something tangible in the town to entice them, rather than just embarrass us Dovorians who still care about the poor old place, then that's the way it should remain.
Of course, the castle, the museum and the Town Hall are fabulous (as is the unique and criminally undervalued Roman Painted House), but what an appalling impression Townwall Street, the underpass and the crumbling remains of Bench Street and King Street create (and don't get me started on where The Crypt used to be, nor 'Damages' in Castle Street). Gateway to England? Yeah, right. Not any more it ain't, sadly. Clogged artery of this sick puppy of a country, more like.
Frankly I'd keep these ever-elusive 'tourists' well at arms length from the town centre until things are seriously tarted up.
A while back I embarrassingly had to direct a very nice American couple to Dunkerley's in Deal from Dover Market Square as they struggled in vain to find a proper fish restaurant. In Dover. By the sea. Selling Dover Sole. They were aghast (this was before Dave Flynn's fine restaurant The Allotment opening, for sure).
Any news on the flattening of Burlington House et al? Call me a cynic but I'll believe it when I see it, and no sooner. Are 'Chavsda' getting twitchy?
I know there are lots of good people trying their best to get the town off its knees blah blah blah, but turning Dover into Whitfield New Town's mega-lorry zone seems a more likely, and horrific, scenario unless the juggernauts (every pun intended) who are ruining dear Dubris can be stopped.
Regards all,
Andy
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
Very interesting posts all round chaps and a very good one there from Andrew saying what a lot of people are feeling in their bones about Dover and its immediate future.
But to go back to the tour bus for a minute..see this picture which is as live as I can get as was taken a few minutes ago only
This tour bus has been doing the rounds of Dover in the past few days. It has no markings so Im not sure what its about, but it was packed on sunday, packed on the top deck, although the top deck is empty today due to the blustery conditions, but it seems to be circulating successfully. Perhaps it is a private initiative as the last tour bus was a national chain and I have a feeling they went out of business. There are passegers on this one right now on the lower floor and its circulating as we speak.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
I believe this could be the transport museum/Dave Atkins as there is a cruise liner in today (assume there still is as I can't see that far from Ashford!) and it will be doing the circuits.
On Sunday we even had a few people in taxis turning up and taking photos of the Heights which I assume was from one of Sunday's visitors ?
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
Thanks Paul..Im not sure at all but like I say I see this bus suddenly playing a role so very good luck to them.
This morning we have the first of the Costa cruise liners in..you know those ones with the slightly retro look, note the twin yellow funnels, but at the same time a hugely modern fleet. Again of Italian origination. The Italian fleets are very big on Dover these days, as we saw the input MSC made and are continuing to make...so great stuff. A warm welcome to all Italians.
ADDED EXTRA: have just looked out and there is a gaggle of Cruise Liners suddenly sneaking in. Y'see turn away for a minute and it all happens. We have a traffic jam of cruise liners. MSC Armonia is outside my rear window as I write and the Amadea is just nestling against the breakwater, no room for it at a terminal. Boom time for the harbour. All Italian ships again as I mentioned above. Great stuff.
Two large ships and the smaller Amadea. Beautiful.
Not a great picture by any stretch but it gives an idea.
Guest 654- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 169
Andrew,
I' m glad you made that posting in a very honest way.
Its what I'v been trying to say for some time, certainly the AS** proposal seems to be very quiet, and it does set off people wondering if its pie in the sky.
I'v never agreed to this move out to Whitfield, it will kill the town centre which is already struggling,
Everyone wants to look at the positives, and as a Dovorian it hurts to see the problems Dover suffers
Thanks Keef.
Good to hear from a fellow cynic who like me has seen and heard it all before!
Whitfield Mega-tropolis New Town will just create a doughnut effect on the area - and we all know what and where the hole is going to be.
If you want sensitive and sympathetic development on the designated 'Chavsda' site, they should pull down 'Damages', Burlington House, the bus depot and the multi-storey and revive the old St James area street pattern, with small diverse and attractive bars, shops, houses and small business franchises.
And that should happen after the archaeologists have been allowed a lengthy free rein at the site - and are subsequently allowed to incorporate their finds into the new development.
If the Time-Team types are permitted to have a really good root around, I suspect we'd find that we have a UNESCO World Heritage Site on our hands. Who'd need Chavsda then?
Time for some imagination. Now. Please.
Regards all,
Andy
Guest 664- Registered: 23 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,039
Imagination? As far as our town planners are concerned that is a defunct 80s black British supergroup, not a quality they possess themselves.
Thinking outside the box is clearly not their strong point. Quite honestly they deserve to be hammered with criticism from those of us who do care until they drop this whole loopy Whitfield New Town idea.
I think we need to be careful about slating the ASDA development too much -are we seriously saying we would prefer what is there now - i.e. nothing but a car park and derelict buildings?
Great that a recreation of a nouveau pre-war St James community ideal would be, we have to realise that is rather utopian and impractical.
Unfortunately that world went forever in Dover with the York St bypass and is not coming back - we have to live with that.
ASDA is the best we are going to get - I would like to see a wider range of use for the site including residential (cf Whitefriars in Canterbury) and leisure.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
interesting posts there.
inevitably as*a will get cold feet if they see nothing done.
the arche, arkei, arcgo - history diggers turned up some months ago for a few days then disappeared.
we were informed by the council that good old burly and the bus garage would be down well before now.
wetherspoon's have lodged wonderful plans for the castle street night club, but will not proceed until they see action
on the site.
my sympathies are with wetherspoons and asda, their patience will wear thin eventually.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
"history diggers turned up some months ago for a few days then disappeared."
These were pits to test the water so to say, and they found a fair amount that was surprisingly good condition and close to the surface. More recently it appeared that they were doing geological study bores scattered over the area so I think things are still happening....
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
Yes Ive seen the bores alright...but I think its fair to say after all the build up about archeology the promise of a big dig event fizzled out like a bit of a damp squip. They came, they went soon, and they didnt conquer!
For the second day running we have Cruise action. Very busy yesteday with 3 cracking ships in. We have another Costa today. Yesterdays one was big but todays is at least a half as big again..ie much bigger!
This time its the Costa Mediterranea. Saga Ruby, almost dull by comparison, is also in.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
"Yes Ive seen the bores alright...but I think its fair to say after all the build up about archeology the promise of a big dig event fizzled out like a bit of a damp squip. They came, they went soon, and they didnt conquer!"
As above, this wasn't a big dig, just to see what could be there !! Know the know it is there and so close, they have a better idea of what they could be dealing with :)
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 644- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,214
"Yes Ive seen the bores alright...but I think its fair to say after all the build up about archeology the promise of a big dig event fizzled out like a bit of a damp squip. They came, they went soon, and they didnt conquer!"
Not really Paul. As the other Paul has pointed out these were only evaluation trial trenches. Hopefully full scale excavation will be not far off. Archaeology is deeply unpopular with many people I know, including a certain nameless councillor who would like the whole lot ploughed up in case it holds up Dover's 'regeneration'. As Andy has pointed out in his excellent post, archaeology can attract tourists if incorporated into development. Canterbury's Roman pavement is such an example as is our very own unique Bronze Age Boat.
Can I also just quickly thank Andy for his brilliant post in which he excellently summarised what many of us think, but dare not print!
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i think you are wrong about archaeology phil.
around here a lot of people are interested, but when they see nothing happening when they get the chance, they get frustrated and want the new development to go ahead.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
Another great Cruise beauty in today in the colourful shape of the Norwegian Jewel. For my money this is the most beautiful ship of all with its striking colourful logos. If I can save up enough pennies then one of these days Oi'll be off on this one. Pop down to the seafront to see it.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
When this comes back from its 12 day cruise Paul, Jean and I will be on it - sooooooo looking forward to it !!
Copenhagen, Warnemunde, Tallin, St. Petersburg, Helsinki, Stockholm, can't remember if there's more stops.
It is a great ship, I agree.
Roger
Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
Roger life of the idel rich
makes my trip to the isle of ..................................Thanet sound poor in relation.Actually off to Germany next week with my American friends but later on in the year going to Cumbria the good thing in the village we are staying in is 6 houses and 1 pub........heaven
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
Hi John - I'm neither idle nor rich.
The Cyprus trip should have been made in January, staying with my brother to help him celebrate his 65th. birthday; we couldn't go then because Jean was seriously ill with peritonitis, so it was postponed till later (end of April).
The cruise was paid for by a small endowment which matured at the end of March, so I thought that Jean deserved a real break - a shame that both were so close to each other.
Hope you have a good time in Germany and Cumbria - both great places to take a holiday.
Roger
