It can only be a question of a week or possibly 10 days since I was last on here commenting on the Afghanistan situation.
What I would like to say to those of you who seem to have an affinity with the Afghans "I TOLD YOU SO"".
Despite the sacrifices our troops are making the dear Afghan can still find the time for a bit of murder. Despite all that has happened, our boys in blue have decided that such casualties are "unfortunate" so lets just stick our heads further into the sands and grin and bare it . Unfortunately it is not our boys in blue who are having to grin and bare it but our boys (and girls ) in desert drill.
I find myself asking the question "Just what sort of casualty figure is going to bring a touch of reality to the politician,1000, 10000, 1000,000? "I guess it is a question of "I,m alright jack " let any one else but me take the crap.
One cannot deny history,whether one likes it or not these people are not of our beliefs, they are callous and cruel, and on no account should they be trusted as has been fully illustrated this week. It is a forlorn hope that NATO and America have of stabilising Afghanistan. The only truth about the situation is that the russians are sitting in Moscow swigging their vodka and saying "I told you so"
So lets prove that we are not that stupid, that we do not need the russians to tell us we are on a lost cause. I can tell you that for nothing.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
just as nauseating as the murders was listening to the military top brass and politicians saying how confience in the afghan army was unshaken.
i doubt whether the troops feel the same way.
Deaths in the Korean war (UK) 1109. A war based upon ideology, communism v capitalism, no immediate threat to the UK.
Deaths in Afghanistan 318 (as I write) following a prolonged period of threat to UK in which the number of people successfully prosecuted as terrorists (threat to those in UK) in the past decade is into three figures.
I'm incredibly sorry that on occasion, people who have signed up to put their life on the line end up dead but 'so it goes'......
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Its a logical tactic for the Taliban to infiltrate the ANA and to try to destroy trust. They have to up there game at routing out these sleepers.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
And how, Barry, do you reckon that is done? 'They have to'...Whos has to? The British wife and mother and sister who has just covered her face and wept after another British soldier has been killed?! People don't have to harp on about Muslim women wearing or not wearing burkas, but rather consider the thousands of British women who have covered their face owing to a cynicle war in Afghanistan!
We DON'T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING in Afghanistan, and ministers proclaiming that the British public MUST put up with more killings of British soldiers in Afghanistan (they don't bother mentioning the wounded), should be publicly told that we MUST NOT put up with it!
Hmm, nice new angle this. Let's go fight a war but not get any casualties. Would one of you 'runners' like to explain how we do that? Perhaps using Vics superb 'stealth' weapons maybe?
If you were to suggest pulling out the troops and dropping an H-bomb on the place I might agree with you. I'd have done the same in Belfast personally. It might do a bit of damage, but as the Japs found out, it brings closure to conflict pretty quickly.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
I am suggesting pulling out our soldiers now from Afghanistan, not tomorrow, and not dropping any bombs on any Afghans, but merely advising them to sort their problems out peacefully! Where on Earth does Belfast come into the equation? It's good that you have no access to Britain's military arsenals, Sid!
Alexander D - you seem a nice chap, but get real. Bob has made a good point about the driver for the Afghan conflict. We are all distressed by casualties, but they do happen in conflicts, and that is what soldiers train for - conflict. I feel genuine grief for each of our casualties and their families and friends who bear their own grief with such dignity. And genuine gratitude that the armed forces do what they do for us - I would rather celebrate that than crib about the obvious outcome to conflict as if it were a surprise.
Bern,
I think it would be safe to say you haven't a clue what you are talking about.
You are totally missing the point. Whether by design or not I don't know.
How can we get it into your head this is not a "Soldiers war" it is a stupid political war bugger all to do with you or me or the squaddies who are sent to die for "F**k All".
Let me give you an example of that.
Today in the times, on the front page reporter Deborah Haynes goes on patrol with American marines,Object to "BUILD A SCHOOL" I mean this has to be a joke right?? Wrong the Taliban gave them a good kicking.
Now I have always been under the impression that if you are going to fight a war in somebody else's country your first objective is to secure the territory, kill or capture the enemy, then think about how can you help the locals. Here we have a case of political incompetence which states build a school first. then ask the neighbours if there are any unfriendly people around who might object. If there, are decide on what would be a suitable amount of casualties would look good in the press then give the marines a pat on the shoulder and tell them "Go get em".It would appear to me that when this is all over, if ever, the war crimes tribunal in the Hague should be convened to try these incompetants
Why do you think "conflict" always has to be resolved in only one way?
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
Mr long, please tell me have you ever been in th army ,or R.N, R.AF.?
Guest 658- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 660
Jimmy i wonder who provides the facts you spout so readily, i have good friends serving out in the sandpit at the moment. what they say differs greatly from what the press say, to coin an example whilst in northern Ireland many years ago i was involved in an incident but the press report made no sense to me. You need to know those serving in the theatre before commenting the press says what it wants. Mentoring the Afghan army is the way forward.
beer the food of the gods
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Jimmy - you really have no idea at all. Building schools and infrastructure is esential to achieving military objectives in Afghanistan. We are not an occupying army.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
barry, if we can aford to build schools in places like afgan,why cant we replace decaying schools in this country first.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
excellent point brian!!
Different funding streams, international budgets. Investment in a peaceful future.
Education is the surest way to stop fundamentalism. Why, even Blair once said, "Education, education, education", so it must be the right policy.
Perhaps forumites might like to ponder a couple of paragraphs from this week's Spectator leader on Military Matters:-
'The battles of the next decade will be fought not for military supremacy, but for influence. That is why Hezbollah's leaders have become world experts on post-conflict reconstruction, realising that every conflict is now a battle for hearts and minds. Even Iran knows that the old slogan 'they'll like us when we win' does not apply. From Iraq to Afghanistan, everyone is now fighting for the same objective: popular control. It is more about people than battlefield supremacy.
The war in Afghanistan is being fought not in the deserts of Helmand, but in the pubs and drawing rooms of Britain. Afghanistan may be, in all too many ways, a 13th century country - but the Taliban is fighting a 21st century war to great effect. They aim to inflict maximum casualties, using methods that generate the most headlines. This undermines popular support for the war, and will eventually lead politicians to withdraw troops before elections. The Taleban's greatest asset is the short political attention span of the West'.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
at the end of the day the taleban know that the west will leave.
sid
education in afghanistan will never be sufficient, the moment we leave any girls in education will be taken out.
it is only western arrogance that believes that they should adopt our values.
Bern,
I completely miss your point,what is your point???