Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
On this day, the 20th of April 1968, Enoch Powell made the most infamous speech in British Political history. He made it to warm applause at a Conservative Association meeting in Birmingham. He predicted that by the year 2000 the country would be awash with immigrants and as a consequence awash with 'rivers of blood'... if the immigration levels carried on as they were at the time.
Well the immigration levels have essentially carried on more or less the same. Various governments tweak it here or tweak it there, to curry public favour, but yes essentially it is the same now as it was then. And yes some could say that the country is awash with immigrants.
Enoch Powell predicted there would be 7million ethnics here by the year 2000, in fact there were actually 4.6million, still a very substantial number. We havent seen the rivers of blood...or have we..remember those home grown islamic bombers.. but we have certainly seen a society change beyond all recognition. The England today is a heady mix of immigrants from all parts of the world. Society is nothing at all like it was, it is multicultured, multimixed racially of all possible combinations, and we are ridled with politically correct rules and regulations for fear of someone, anyone, being upset by a careless remark.
For people at the time of Powells speech, people who longed to hold on to an England of country villages and garden teas, all was lost. That England of green and pleasant land was gone forever. Powell hit the right note for some, but horrified many.
He carried on as a Conservative afterwards but was shocked himself at the widespread horrific response to his speech. Powell was forever marginalised after that...he slipped down from shadow minister to obscurity, and eventually left the Conservatives and became an Ulster Unionist in 1974, which says a lot about the Ulster Unionists and there own 'race' based position at the time.
Whether England is a better place today or not is debatable.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
enoch has been partly proved right there might 4.9 million known imagrents but how about those who sliped in undetected etc.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
He later admitted privately that this speech was a complete and utter pack of nonsense.He had no plans for repatriation nor did he have any concise plans on operating a firm but fair immigration policy.It was the type of speech that stirs up the worst feelings in us without having any basis of knowledge or background of the subject.
He was wrong and laid the seeds for racism in this and other countries that we should be ashamed of.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
I was going to answer your posting above Marek (especially the last line), with honesty and integrity, but after the previous problems I had, I'm not going to.
Because of that one person who complained and the ensuing media drubbing I received, I am now not entering into any public discussion on immigration, race or anything connected with it and I am 100% non-racist.
The complainers have won - no intelligent conversation/discussion can now take place, because every time immigration is mentioned, so are accusations of racism.
Roger
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
Roger
Point taken.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Marek - the seeds of rascism, in fact a lot more than just seeds, were there long before Enoch.
Interestingly those who knew did not consider him a rascist at all and there is plenty of evidence in his actions and less known speeches to back that up.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
Thats an interesting response there Roger in post #4...and its the same point I made at the tail end of paragraph 3 above. So in actual fact you have had your freedom of speech curtailed in much the same way as I mentioned above. Your wings have been clipped. Where does that leave us in this day and age? a society where people are afraid to speak out!
Guest 672- Registered: 3 Jun 2008
- Posts: 2,119
Very interesting post this one.
Paul says, A society where people are afraid to speak out!
I suppose it depends on what side of the fence your on realy if you think about it.
A lot do it and get away with it constantly, a few utter a couple of words or are taken the wrong way and should be locked up straight away.
An on going story innit.
Ian..
grass grows by the inches but dies by the feet.
Roger - I feel sad and alarmed that you have been left feeling unable to discuss - I was so afraid this would happen after that episode. we are the losers at the end, as it is only by discussion and debate that we move on. I have learned a lot from this forum and in discussion with colleagues and friends - how else do we explore things and learn? Even when we disagree - particularly when we disagree! - we find things out.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Agree totally there Bern, the extemists win if we do not engage.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
Sadly, I agree with you, but I really don't want to take the chance of being embroiled in that kind of thing again. Jean probably felt the stress more than I did.
I must be honest, shortly after that "incident" when I was having a drink down at Blakes, I kept looking round to see if people were taking notes or ear-wigging - wouldn't it be awful if you were having a private conversation (can you have a private conversation in a public house ?) and someone misheard you or only heard part of a conversation and reported you ?
I have always been a bit of a rebel, not towing the party line so to speak and saying what I felt needed to be said and now, because some AH reported me for an innocent joke that wasn't about racism at all, but about the perception of Government policy on immigration, my tongue has been (metaphorically speaking) cut out.
Roger
My response, Roger? **** 'em!!!! You carry on being a rebel - rebels are the pioneers of our society!!!
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
Roger
You now may agree after all i told you over the years about the dangers of the local media I had little support from you when I mentioned this time and again when in your company.
On the issue of the joke??????? as i said Ia was appalled at the content but always support the right of people to post.
There was never any doubt that the joke would provoke feedback.
I'm still of the opinion i was before, okay so national MP's should be taken to task and the rivers of blood speech as Marek says was not true and just used to hype up tensions.
I still feel it wrong that some of the local media run stories on local politicians which damsages that person, and the wider family., should it be allowed? is it realy good for the community? I don't think so.
This debate will go on and on with or without roger
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
But the point about that joke Keith, is that it wasn't about racism at all, it was about people's perception of the Government's (could've been any Government) policy on immigration - two very different things.
O.K. it had an immigrant family, but that doesn't make it racist.
Roger
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
roger,you are right there,it could aplly to anyone.
Guest 664- Registered: 23 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,039
Roger, concentrate on doing what you can for the town and let Britain go hang.
That is my attitude from now on - the last straw for me was when I weighed into a thread on this forum in support of someone who then refused to support me in return - on the same thread!
Too many decent people have been destroyed trying to defend this country from itself. Speak up in the common interest and you'll be attacked.
Let Britain rot, it is all it deserves.
Just out of interest, and no names asked for, which thread?
Guest 664- Registered: 23 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,039
Bern I can't remember which one, it was a while ago.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
Roger
Lets have a bit of honesty, it was clear your so called joke would offend, and whilst I support your right to post, when you do so then you have to also take the flak if it should be seen by some to be offensive.
Thats life!
I'm afraid i'm more for shouting for a better Dover and Britain and i don't think anyone shouild give up on it.
With tensions as they are it was an unfortunate post, Roger like many others does his bit for Dover, as i'v said before we wont always agree on how to achieve but hopefully we all have the same aim.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Roger - it was a very good joke and I enjoyed it.
Some people just need to get a sense of humour and others, the worse of the pc extremists, a life.