Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
28 October 2008
08:238156#1
Some staggeringly depressing figures came out yesterday as to the plight of pubs and beer sales generally. It seems that 1.8million fewer pints are being sold per day, yes thats right, PER DAY. No industry can sustain loses like that...so the writing is on the wall for a complete redesign of our future drinking habits.
And here's the crux..even the supermarkets and off licences are suffering from a mighty unprecedented slump. The British Beer and Pub Association blame not just the recession but the last round of crippling budgetry taxes which hit pubs and general sales badly.
There seems little future now for the old fashioned pub. Although many profess to like them, few seem to frequent them, and sentiment doesnt pay the bills.
28 October 2008
08:538158#2
Please don't set everyone off again blaming the smoking ban!!! Old-fashioned boozers are lovely, but publicans are different now and that has changed things. Publicans used to be sociable but firm, kept a grip on the pub and made sure things stayed pleasant - now anything goes and as long as the landlord hears the till kerchinging he lets it all happen. I used to like pubs, then stopped going because of the smoke. The smoking ban would encourage back more if pubs were better behaved places!
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
28 October 2008
09:138160#3
I could never understand why Pubs have to be all things to all customers.Why can we not have
1.'Smoking only' pubs-Offering pool,bar games, sarnies and off sales.No cooked food- no kids
2.Family pubs catering for mums dad nans etc serving food..Sunday lunches kiddies parties,childrens play areas etc.no smoking- no slot machines
3.Entertainment pubs catering for the younger drinker-fast food- music- bands- dancing and slot machines.Policed by sniffer dogs and providing their own security -no kids
4.Gourmet Pubs-catering for the mature drinker but specialising in home cooked fine food,nice wines.no kids-no smoking.
Surely there is room in the market for more diverse and themed pubs.
We don't need to stick to pubs all roughly competing for one type of customer.Times and drinking habits have changed and the pubs should change with them.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
28 October 2008
09:388162#4
bring back smoking in pubs no food no kids just a friendly atmosphere with the landlord in charge.wine bars for non smokers would be welkom.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
28 October 2008
09:548165#5
Brian
It's no good looking back you should look forward to how pubs should adapt and encompass change and develop.Your idea of all smoking pubs is not acceptable in todays society.But with a little more thought and flexibility by the govt and the pub industry then all needs could be catered for.Please see my previous posting above on how this could possibly be achieved..
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
28 October 2008
10:008166#6
no wonder they closing if that is todays attitude towards pubs.i can acept a no smoking policy where food is cocernd but pubs have been smokers paradice away from the wife and kids.its not to late to repeal this stupid law as to give the pub landlords there lively hood back.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
28 October 2008
10:318167#7
The law will never be repealed Brian and the sooner smokers accept it the better.
I am amazed at how this weed is such a high priority for so many people. I know those who spend £200 a month or more in cigarettes but always claim to be broke.... It really is plain daft. There are no redeeming features about tobacco at all, it is a simply disgusting habit that should rank with picking your nose in public, or worse. I suppose it is just a matter of drug addiction and I cant understand heroin addicts any more than I understand tobacco addicts.
Guest 670- Registered: 23 Apr 2008
- Posts: 573
28 October 2008
10:528169#8
Barry you still refuse to comment on a two-tier system as I andnow others have mentioned.
As far as landlords are concerned I think you will find that the big chains not only train their staff but their managers as well, to keep detached from the customer and not get involved in the friendly banter you get in the traditional local.
Regarding trouble, much of the behaviour comes from the big chain operations, just look at some of the television programmes they will invariably show drunks falling out of the big disco bars where they have gorged themselves with cheap booze. The old landlord because of his interaction with his customers could smell the slightest hint of trouble and could nip it in the bud before it escalated. CCTV cannot do that.
Regarding kids, not in locals please the average bloke went to the pub for a bit of peace and quiet and perhaps get away fromthe ole' woman who was addicted to Coronation Street and all the other over-rated rubbish.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
28 October 2008
12:018172#9
Dave this discussion is now spread among two threads and I did sddress the two tier issue on the other won. I am against it, totally. It would create other problems. Far better that smokers do themselves and their families a favour and give up their anti-social habit.
One thing that might help the 'local' would be a differentiated tax on alcohol that reduces the cost of the kind of real ales sold in good pubs and increasing it on the tipples of choice for binge drinkers, including those dreadful alcopops.
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
28 October 2008
13:578174#10
How often do you hear those defending the smoking ban, on health grounds, go on to argue that speed limits are 'restrictive' and that health and safety legislation is over the top and how they hate the 'nanny state'. You are as well asking people to give up drinking or the more dangerous sports, or even over eating, as you are smoking. The fact is pubs have always been a haven for smokers and, in areas where suitable sheltered areas outside cannot be provided, a two tier system would give more pubs a chance of surviving.
When I started going into pubs on a regular basis, probably underage, my friends and I would sit at a table and try not to attract too much attention in case we were thrown out. Too often these days the underage drinkers are the ones running in and out, swearing loudly at their 'mates' and standing with their ears glued to their mobiles. They know they will get away with it because too many landlords will do nothing about it (afraid of being sued if they get too close) and PCSO's, who are allowed to patrol the streets, are not allowed to follow groups of potential trouble-makers into them.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Guest 670- Registered: 23 Apr 2008
- Posts: 573
28 October 2008
15:268175#11
That is a sensible approach Chris and one which gives people a choice.
Barry, do you drive a car, fly in a plane, travel on a ship walk along Townwall Streetwhen there is a traffic jam or up the town about 5.30pm. Do you drink, eat a lot of red meat, fail to exercise properly and vote Conservative, had to get that one in, ALL these things are very damaging to your health.
I am trying to give up smoking as I can't really afford it but my doctor said that I had smoked for so long that to give it up suddenly was likely to give me a heart attack
Finally Chris your point about the PCSO's shows just how useless the are.
I feel better now!!!!!
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
28 October 2008
15:358176#12
ok barry can you answer this then,if everybody stoped smoking,drinking and driving there cars where would hm goverment replace that lost revenue?.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
28 October 2008
16:188178#13
Brian
"if everybody stopped smoking,drinking and driving their cars where would HM government replace that lost revenue"?.
That's never going to happen.So we have to deal with hard facts.The fewer people that never smoke results in a lesser burden on the NHS in later life.
So we have to reduce the number of smokers by targetting the young,,to never start smoking.It's more or less a lost cause with the older generation as the damage to their lungs and arteries has already taken place.
Stamp out Binge drinking a curse of todays youth.
And finally look at alternative bio fuels to power our cars and adopt a different attitude to public transport and bikes.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
28 October 2008
17:288180#14
Brian, Dave. I dont think I ever emphasised the health issue.... my objection is much more basic than that, it is simply a horrible nasty habit that makes non-smoker's eyes water, cough and clothes smell. Why on earth do smokers think they should have a right to inflict that on other people whether it be in their homes, in pubs, restaurants or even walking by on the street? It is also unnecessary and it does not provide any real nutritional benefits, unlike real ale!!! In this day and age we need cars, planes and so on and they benefit society in many ways though true there are drawbacks.
If tobacco was newly discovered now and was subject to all the product testing that goes on it would without a doubt be a banned substance.
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
28 October 2008
17:398181#15
As would be Asprins and penicillen, both of which would fail animal testing. H & S would probably not allow motor bikes, kids swings and conkers.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
28 October 2008
17:448183#16
H&S - another one up for banning, damn fascist killjoys.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
28 October 2008
17:458184#17
like smokers and drinkers then.if everybody gives up smoking,drinking and driving cars like the goverment wants us to do the only way they get the revenue back is by raising taxs elsewhere.would i be correct in saying that barry.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
28 October 2008
18:208187#18
Brian
Do you read previous postings or do you just ignore them and repeat the same inane question?
The Government does not want us to stop smoking..it wants the young never to adopt the filthy habit,therefore saving future generations tax payers money on health care.
It doesn't want the public to stop drinking but start drinking more sensibly.Eridicate youth binge drinking and stamp out the illegal sales to under 18yr olds by irresponsible shop owners.
The country depends for its wealth on good transport links and a sound efficient infrastructure..in other words it does not want us to stop driving but perhaps think about certain journeys ie catching the train or bus to work better still cyclying or walking.
Its about obtaining a fine balance between all 3 not the knee jerk tabloid pub chatter reaction of.."how would the govt exist if we all stopped smoking "..as if by smoking you were making some valuable contribution to the tax coffers and society cos your not. More money is spent in treating smoke related illnesses than is obtained in tabacco revenue.
Smoke by all means but just don't inflict your exhaled fumes onto those of us who hate the smell and idea of smoking.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
28 October 2008
19:128191#19
marek,i do read the posts if not once but twice just to try to understand where you others come from,and i think you find that at least 60% of the above products is tax.yes i do smoke and i try to be carefull where i smoke and allso have a drink or two on the odd occasion,i do not drive i dont wish to as i make good use of public transport.so if paulbs post is correct within the next 18 months or so there will be no pubs to go to then the goverment has done its job on binge drinking.as for public transport if more people got out there cars and onto local busses there would be less pollution in the town.there is a bus ticket you can buy eor your kids at 50 quid a year so that cut out the car school runs.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
28 October 2008
19:378198#20
Well said Marek.
