Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
30 August 2009
08:4328190
Gordon Brown paid a dynamic looking visit to frontline Afghanistan yesterday and met the troops in the blazing heat of the hot desert location. I guess it was the usual morale booster and he listened with concerns and with interest. The problem is there is no end in sight to this conflict, we have hardly scratched the surface of a beginning. Now there is demand from the US Generals for 20,000 more troops as with the current force levels they are getting nowhere against a determined and battlehardened Taliban. isnt this Vietnam reborn?
If that isnt bad enough our troops are dying, dying so that they can bring democracy to a country that doesnt want democracy, or to put it another way, a population that shows no interest in it whatsoever. In one region with 85,000 people on the electoral roll only 150 bothered to vote. There were other regions of similar malaise. Somebody tell me this is worth it??
More and more people both here and in the USA think this is barking mad(see the poll below). Yet the Politicians want to continue saying that its keeping our own streets safe...hmmmm
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
30 August 2009
08:5528191Think they should stay and finish job
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
30 August 2009
08:5928193Keef one general said it would take 10 years. Think how many Troops will die in that ten years if you can extrapulate from the figures already seen. Is it worth that high cost. The people there couldnt give a brass monkey who is in charge as long as they get a bit of a break from shells and rocket propelled grenades whizzing around their heads. They dont embrace democracy like we do in the west.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
30 August 2009
09:0128194its a hard one paulb think that debate will go on
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
30 August 2009
09:1328195They are not dying to bring democracy to Afghanistan PaulB. That neoCon concept is not shared by Obama and was a non-starter. They are there to stabilise the Kabul (and Pakistani, come to that) Government and to deny the Taliban the ability to provide secure training grounds for terrorists. Better conducting the anti-terror war there than in the streets of London (or Dover).
Brown does ned to find some way to boost his morale, pity he has to damage that of the Armed Forces by going there. Cyclops, as the troops refer to him, is not exactly a very popular figure among the troops.
Two threads that demonstrate what they think of him. The language is rather fruitier than we use on this forum, be warned. The present visit is discussed on the second thread from towards the end of page 56...
http://www.arrse.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic/t=132070.html
http://www.arrse.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic/t=119903/postdays=0/postorder=asc/start=1100.html30 August 2009
09:4028197Absolutely - our presence there is to reduce the threat to the West by reducing the Taliban, and that also increases the autonomy of the people living there as a positive by-product. we aren't "bringing them democracy", we are increasing our own security and in addition giving them options they will not have if the Taliban remain.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
30 August 2009
09:4728198Not to mention the poppy fields......
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
30 August 2009
10:1728202You were told not to mention them Marek...........!!
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
30 August 2009
10:2428205Hes on them lol
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
30 August 2009
10:2928206Not terribly sure I beleive the usual politicians spin that we are keeping our own streets safe. We've never had an attack from foreign nationals if my memory serves me well, apart from Irish ones. All our recent attacks were homespun. Terrorists attacks across the globe have increased if anything. The world isnt any safer.
As for the poppies...a report early this year clearly stated that poppy production had increased over the past couple of years. Obviously this was embarassing news for all western governments serving there..and they went into PR spin bigtime, but facts are facts. The poppy fields, unperturbed by recession, show massive economic growth so fat lot of difference us being there has made to production.
Poppies will grow forever Marek. They like the climate....so if indeed we could make a difference to their production... we would have to stay there forever!
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
30 August 2009
10:3128207Wonder what the answer is then?
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
30 August 2009
11:0528209easy,naypalm the poppy fields on a regular bases.then the afgans might just might get the message.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
30 August 2009
11:5828213brian
Again you lost me
30 August 2009
13:5328219The homegrown terrorists had to learn and be recruited somewhere, and that somewhere is in the Middle East. the traini ng and the planning is all over there, and that is what we are combatting, among other things.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
30 August 2009
13:5828221Very difficult question about the Poppy fields there has been some destruction of fields but this drives the farmers into the hands of the Taliban. It would appear that the farmers can and are willing to grow wheat but they are unable to obtain credit for seeds and machinery etc. The Americans are putting in $404m in the hope of persuading the farmers in the three main poppy regions (one of them being Helmand) to switch crops.Time will tell but PaulB is quite right production us up since 2001 and so is the price per kilo very little of which goes to the hard pressed farmer.
Bern.."I think I've mentioned it once but got away with it..but don't mention the war..."
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
30 August 2009
14:0928223Sssshhh......
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
30 August 2009
15:2028227kieth,in short keep destroying the poppy fields untill nothing grows there,then do the same to the taliban.simples tch.
30 August 2009
16:3128233Ok, try this: you are a teetotal Musilm. You have an idea: lets keep destroying the distilleries and pubs until nothing lives or drinks there. Then do the same to the Landlords. Simples, tch. Until you understand the social and financial infrastructure behind the poppyfileds it is impossible to create a meaningful solution.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
30 August 2009
18:1528237meaning what exactully bern.
Guest 641- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 2,335
30 August 2009
21:2928242The local farmers know that they will get a better return from poppy fields and as PaulB rightly says production has increased since the foreign infidels invaded their soil. Maybe powers that be feel this will do more damage to the west by flooding the drug market, but I don't think so, it's all down to cash return. The Afghans are a tribal/warlord led society which will avoid democracy at all costs but will play the game for the money methinks.
email: dover7@msn.com
