Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
7 November 2008
10:018764The people of Castleford elected a committee to represent their interests with regard to the regeneration of that once mining town.They told the planners,the architects and local council that if they didn't listen to the needs and desires of the townsfolk that they would simply sack them all and draft in planners who did listen and not use planners who simply wanted to impose their plans and ideas on the town. It was the residents that would have to live with results not the planners drafted in from the big cities nor the councillors who lived in the leafy suburbs.
Maybe there is a lesson there.....
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
7 November 2008
13:178785Personally....
The Western Heights are an area that isn't going to get major funding at any time in the future. English Heritage have reallocated a lot of their money to key sights meaning millions are being spent at the Castle in the coming 3-5 years (every exciting and the most major developments there in a very long time).
The Lottery fund is getting a lot harder to get money from and with so much money elsewhere in the town, it is unlikely that they will get the major funding that is required.
IF the allocation of land to an award winning and high class development that isn't to the detriment of the rest of the site and will secure the future of the heritage then it will have to be a good compromise. The there is 4-5 miles of moats and fortifications there that are all in desparate need for work and to redevelop an area that is achaeologically ruined already may be a way to get the money that is required to get the Drop Redoubt and surrounding areas opened to the public and the Grand Shaft accessible again.
We are never going to get a museum up there that can be self-funding as the infrastructure cannot take it - the Society does what it can, but it is a losing battle. A war memorial on it's own may not work, but to tie in this, a heritage centre, visitor centre, world class confence centre may eventually get the Heights working properly.
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
7 November 2008
15:068793Andy,your comments were expressed at the full council meeting the other night by Cllr Paul Watkins as he had obviously seen them on here.Things are happening all over the Town,yes mainly demolition at the moment and there is a long way to go.The Council with the help od SEEDA have been buying land for a long time,and there are still bits that are being worked on.As far as Dover Priory is concerned I am not allowed to pass comment on that because I work for Southeastern and as I understand Network rail are holding things up,but Cllr Watkins told me that meetings soon will hopefully sort that out,and there is talk about an additional £2m to improve the car parking for the High Speed Link which comes in in a years time.
Now I should point out in case any of you don't know the Council is Tory run,and I am a Labour Cllr so I am not always in the loop on these things but to be fair this Council and Cllr Watkins are keeping us informed.
Things are moving perhaps not as fast as we all you me and the Council want,and when they do move we need to watch and study each plan to make sure we get what this Town deserves.
What this Town does need is a bit of belief and I know that is hard because we have had so many false promises or failed projects in the past,but Goverment money is now coming into the Town in large sums and this will make a hugh difference,and about time.
The regeneration will not be eveything that we all want but will change this Town and it will not happen overnight,but surely and slowly it is on its way.
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
7 November 2008
15:388797JHG
If we didn't believe in Dover we would have buggered off years ago.Yes it takes time to change things for the better.Money is always an issue we are not totally stupid.But it's eyesores than have been left festering for ages that annoy residents..the Cavern site.the old indoor market,Burlington House,the unused land at the back and side of Roman Painted House,the decay in Castle st,the lack of hanging baskets,the shit awful christmas lights,Pencester Gardens,car parking,the over zealous traffic wardens,the lack of coppers on duty on foot in the town centre at weekends and public holidays, the lack of public seating in the upper part of town near Rooks etc..is that enough to be going on with?
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
7 November 2008
17:118799Well said, Marek. We've been watching it rot and hearing the same old excuses for decades. The powers-that-be have had more than enough time to get things going.
The civic, corporate and architectural vandalism and neglect that Dover's suffered since the late 1960s (yes, that long!) shame those who have wielded the power to initiate decent town planning in that period.
You can understand why we humble Dovorians are getting beyond miffed.
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
7 November 2008
17:218800What I worry about, and why I feel there should be true public consultation on the towns future, is that we are going to be palmed off with a DDC/DHB image of the town. So far the 'regeneration' is set to be DHB redeveloping the Western Docks (with the loss of more of our seafront) then conecting this to the castle via a cable car so that cruise passengers can sail over the town (and over the traffic chaos around the new monolithic supermarket) and then back to the ship. To pay for it they will sell off parts of our heretige and replace them with a hotel that will, to judge from the initial ideas expressed about it, provide the guests with great views out but destroy the view looking up at it. And the town and its people will get a business destroying supermarket and an inadequate clinic to wait in before being shipped elsewhere for treatment. There are better ideas and options out there and its time Dover had the chance to speak for itself.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
7 November 2008
22:018813All that you say is right Chris P - but while local reps have vested interests we will not progress.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
7 November 2008
23:058817getting back to the earlier posting from paul, there seems to be a party that would be interested in building a luxury hotel up on the heights.
this would solve the match funding problem that we have at present, that is holding up regeneration.
this seems the perfect answer to me, so long as access to the fortifications and all other interesting places are unaffected.
the heights are large enough to accomodate a top class conference centre/hotel, it will be pleasant also to see the people that stop over enjoying a morning walk to appreciate the natural beauty before they move on.
personally, i get cheesed off when going for a walk up there in not seeing anyone else there, seems such a waste.
I cannot see that that the ecology would be affected, we are not talking about a series of high rise hotels choking the area to death.
what do forumites think?
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
7 November 2008
23:128818Howard - yes that is the ideas that are floating around at the moment. There is a lot of work logistically to be able to put such a development in the Grand Shaft 'bowl' but if it was done VERY VERY well then it would be the key to proper restoration and possibly the memorial and something to permanently open to the public. It would have to be very high standard iconic building and not a "Travelodge" box. It would also have to be strictly controlled so that there isn't further developments (like an Asda in the Citadel !!).
Been nice knowing you :)
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
7 November 2008
23:228819if they put a top class hotel would they have to put in better transport links and resurface the entire road from aycliffe to york street?.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
7 November 2008
23:558820interesting points raised by brian and paul here.
i think that a hotel/conference centre up there would command big room rates, which in turn would mean a hotel not too large and intrusive.
i do not think that much would be needed on the subject of transport links.
we are not talking about coach loads of tourists.
most would some by their own transport, if a company was organising a conference there, they would be likely to use the new high speed link, then setting up a mini bus or coach from the station.
a general smartening up might be needed, but nothing too expensive.
it would be nice to think that the guests in their spare time get to see the wonderful napoleonic stuff that we take for granted, and enjoy a stroll whilst looking over to the french coast.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
8 November 2008
01:008822Howard, Paul and brian, I welcome what you are saying here about the potential for a high class hotel on the Heights and yes done properly it could be a key to opening up this area to play a constructive role for the town, highlight the history and important remains that are there.
This project is one promoted by the Dover District Chamber of Commerce and I cannot say much about it. It must be the right development and work is progressing to that end but there remains a lot of hurdles.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
8 November 2008
01:328824We could start by releasing all the detained immigrants and putting them in more suitable sheltered accommodation.Then converting the Citidel into a themed hotel.Job half done.The staff could all dress in Napoleanic type period uniforms etc,
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 664- Registered: 23 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,039
8 November 2008
10:058832I think I ought to claim copyright on this
as I originally suggested the truck park scenario to Andrew a year or two ago, to his obvious horror
I have never though there was some organised conspiracy to effect the entruckment of the town centre, just that a gradual migration up to Whitfield could be the town's long term fate and that the port is starting to swallow up the town.
And that DDC needs to understand what is happening and realise that every development at Whitfield sucks life out of Dover even more. What I believe we will get is a typically English fudge where both Whitfield (at Dover's expense) and the town are developed, with Whitfield eventually winning.
.
Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
9 November 2008
16:198876Andy it was good to chat to you last night,sorry it was so busy,I couldn't agree more with you,this Town's life is being sucked out of it by stores in Whitfield,over 50 per cent of shopping in Dover is done there,and people wonder why the town is empty.
Perhaps we should have a turnpike going to Whitfield so that anyone going shopping there should pay to get there.I am not a fan of the Mall's that surround every town in the USA because in many Towns and Citys in the USA there is no town centre and in my opinion if you lose your Town centre you lose your Towns character.Yet shopping mall or lane type shops are fine if you have the major shops around them.
When they build shopping malls in the USA they build there major shops at each end and thier specialist shops in between,so that people have to walk passed them,seem to work.
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!
Guest 664- Registered: 23 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,039
10 November 2008
12:598914John, I heard that also - over 50% of Dover's retail spend is at Tesco's alone.
Which of course means that in retail terms Whitfield has a bigger economy than Dover already. Everyone at Honeywood cannot be in the town at the same time. Hence I am pro-ASDA, if that is the best we can get.
These decisions were made of course in the 80s and the developments are here to stay - but to my mind Dover is being crushed in a pincer movement between the port and Whitfield.
The die was cast the moment they agreed to let Tesco, a global economic power in its own right, build there. It is now a case of letting history take its course - a process which can be either slowed or hastened by further strategic decisions.
I made a post earlier this year about the lack of joined-up strategic thinking - and agree that an American-style doughnut Dover is now our fate, whether we want it or not.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
10 November 2008
13:328916Chaps ASDA have enough cost cutting power to drag back half of Tesco's customers. If thats the case then you would be pleased that only 25% of Dover's retail spend would be at Whitfield, bringing back all those customers to central Dover. I live in central Dover, merely yards from DTIZ, and I want some retail life here.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
10 November 2008
13:388918Quite right PaulB. I know Alison is looking forward to ASDA opening.
It really is nonsense to suggest any kind of abandonment of the town centre. On the contrary, DDC knows perfectly well the importance of trying to breathe life into it. They have few powers though, not even the ability to use Business Rates to help town centre shops.
The recession will bite us hard over the next year or so and exactly what the full impact on the town centre will be is hard to guess. We have to hope for the best and support our local estabishments as much as we can.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
10 November 2008
14:268920i cant wait for asda to open [not to far to walk to]and its a lot nearer than nettos.
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,695
10 November 2008
23:448954On a personal level Asda was and is a poor choice.
However, it is what we have got and therefore we need to make the most of it as we cannot change it. If it drags even 25% of the Tesco's trade back into the centre of Dover then it has done something positive; now if Morrison's opens as well and can bring another 25% of the Tesco custom down to the town - fantastic.
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