Sid Pollitt
11 November 2008
22:559013I think Marek was offering a vision, it's a better one than the eyesore we have and better than the one that's on offer. The new Asda in Folkestone isnt exactly attractive is it? I return to my earlier point, when? Roger, how many years of inactivity have you presided over? To my calculation it is May 2003 to November 2008 and counting. How much longer do we have to wait before something is started, another six months, six years?
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
11 November 2008
22:579014Having been in Costa (lot for) Coffee recently and regularly using Subways, plus getting my glasses from Specsavers, I have difficulty seeing your point here Howard. We already have those where we want them, in the town centre.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,695
11 November 2008
23:009015Paul I repeat "from a personal point of view Asda was/is a poor choice".
I accept it was the only taker, however that does not make it right, just expedient.
All the evidence from Folkestone so far is that the Asda there is have a detrimental effect on the local shopping e.g. the demise of Guildhall Street where close to 60% of the shops have closed and this is not an isolated instance. When you couple that with their dubious pricing practices in the USA and their record on employment practices in the UK I am struggling to consider them a good choice. But of course it was Hobson's Choice wasn't it.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
11 November 2008
23:319017chris
i was merely naming the companies that i could remember.
probably because they are in dover already.
the point i was trying to make is that new businesses gravitate towards a large development.
hence BHS, HMV a massive sports centre that surround asda in folkestone.
my bet is that as soon as asda is up and running two new fast food places will open almost immediately.
my betting is burger king and a pizza chain.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
12 November 2008
08:029023I'm not going to answer every point of every previous poster, but on the Farm issue, there's plenty of room at Little Farthingloe Farm on the Folkestone Road and if someone wants to grant money to the owner there, I'm sure he'll be happy to have animals there - he already has a few and he sells fresh produce too, he has a restaurant there and a land-army museum.
Supermarket buildings can be good or bad design, but most of whether it is thought to be good or bad, is one's personal view and that is very subjective - so one person may think it's an attractive building, while someone else will thing it is awful - you can't please all of the people all of the time and this is a prime example of that.
I haven't presided over anything Sid, I'm a back-bench Councilloor and it has never been inactivity, just slow progress - much slower than we would want too.
If you want to have a dig about slow-progress, then consider the land-ownership issues, that's the main stumbling block, or rather has been.
As an aside, Chris, why don't you use local independant places instead of Costa and Subway ? somewhere like La Salle Verte, the coffee is cheaper and better and the food likewise and he's ploughed his own money into Dover.
Roger
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
12 November 2008
08:339024Roger (and I always feel bad about doing this as you're a thoroughly nice guy) How on earth does your comment on Chris' shopping habbits marry up with being 'pro' asda. What you did with the loyality card was a wonderful example of trying to create and maintain local business, Asda have the opposite outlook.
La Salle Verte is cheaper and better than Costa, and much better for the town if more people like Hayden invested their time and money.
As to whether someone likes a building or thinks it to be attractive is subjective, I agree. As to whether or not it is a good design is actually more objective. There are many buildings I dislike but are well designed. I think this a fundemental problem with our planning department in Dover; that they confuse the two concepts, if all things were just a matter of opinion there would be no need for the planning act. The Asda being offered is 'better' than most, but not good.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
12 November 2008
08:449026still asking paul w.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
12 November 2008
09:059027Roger and DT1, I too was going to ask the same question of Chris.
I have never used the Costa in Dover, Subway or Specsavers. I prefer to use local businesses of which we have excellent alternatives to national chains. It is not always possible to do that in every instance of course but where it is practical and reasonable I do think local people should support our local businesses for preference. Bigger businesses generally will survive this recession, the smaller ones will have a much harder job doing so.
Unregistered User
12 November 2008
09:289032Brian ,apologies. The developer has to comply with the planning conditions before full approval is given for the go ahead.Weekly meetings continue with ASDA, Bond & quango agencies delivering full requirements. I can't give you a definitive answer. The majority of matters have been settled. It is complex site with many individual issues, other than the principle of planning , standing in the way. The point Sid made about when the developer was appointed is pertinent. Not a case of the local authority holding up the scheme but the power of quango agencies having the power to put add ons into permissions & changes in planning requirements.
Sorry I missed your original posting.
The posting referring to a potential demolition on the Castle St. area is part of the scheme.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
12 November 2008
09:309033In closing I just wondered if any DDC councillor would like as his epitaph, about what he/she did for Dover when offered an exciting opportunity to reshape Dovers prime DTIZ site ,to read
"We were shopped by ASDA"
Some lasting tribute and legacy.
This opportunity will probably not raise its head again for about another 50-60 years it would be such a shame not to do something exciting and challenging on that site.Something we could all be proud of...ah well it's nice to dream..
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Unregistered User
12 November 2008
09:469035Dream on, Marek. When you wake up we would still have an empty run down site. Twee little shops that can't survive will not solve Dover's problem. We have had twee little town centre shops & they are closing because Dover people don't support them. Chris just gave an example of that. The spending power in Dover is currently not adequate to live up to your dreams.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
12 November 2008
09:539040Paul
We have lived with a bombed out run down town since the war so a few more years to wait whilst we get it right will not be too much of a price to pay.
Why are we (ie) Dover not jumping on the Olympic bandwagon?Surely something could be built on the site that would become a centre of excellence for young athletes,swimmers and or sailors and still incorporate your 'dream' of building another supermarket.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Unregistered User
12 November 2008
10:149051It is not my dream to build another supermarket, but commercial reality to bring retail opportunities back to Dover Town Centre.
I'm not sure where you think the finance for the leisure will come from or the running costs to the standard you would like & of course you would want it free to all [as I would] . As I said dream on.
It don't work that way.
Perhaps you should join fellow forum members & stand for election & experience what the realities are if elected. It is not local councillors that thwart you ,it is the system of local government imposed by central government.
For info, just to show you we do look at examples of the type of scheme you have identified, the figure I was given for the running of an Olympic size pool was £2m per annum.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
12 November 2008
10:419052Paul
I spend far too much time out of the UK to be able to devote enough time and energy this town deserves in being a Councillor.I am not knocking Councillors just some of the ideas they 'dream' up.
Does this mean that other than lobbying to have the olympic torch touch down in Dover this town will be taking no further part in holding any of the olympic events?.
It doesn't really matter what I and many others say as it would appear that we are faced with a 'fait accompli' and ASDA will arrive in Dover.
In the meantime is there anything you can do about the old indoor market site ,the burnt out Crypt site et al etc.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
12 November 2008
10:439054Speak to the owners of those sites Marek.
Guest 664- Registered: 23 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,039
12 November 2008
10:489056If these figures are correct it has to be great news for the town centre.
I don't think it's rubbish to say the decision to site an out of town superstore at Whitfield in the 80s has hurt the town, as the facts speak for themselves.
What IS rubbish is a string of decisons made by the council at the time, including this one and the WCE.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
12 November 2008
10:499057Although not afraid of a bit of confrontation..surely it would be far better and more effective if an elected representative speaking on behalf of the citizens of Dover approached the owners and told them to get their 'fingers' out.
It's no good having a dog and barking theeself lad otherwise we may as well dispense with the whole lot of them and save ourselves a few bob.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Unregistered User
12 November 2008
11:109060Marek , the ASDA decision was taken years ago [democratically]. The public were consulted at various stages of this development & the marjority supported it. ASDA have been to town & met the public.Whilst you & others campaign to change it, regretably we can't please everyone. The response I get is why is it taking so long to develop .not we don't want ASDA. I have a great problem taking seriously those with vested professional & commercial interests posting here & the public thinking they are purely philanthropic.
Sorry I don't see any reason to revisit the decision, other than either the developer or ASDA pulling out. Even then ,the over riding principle would still be getting enough of a commercial option to bring people back to shop in the centre of Dover. We want Dover's commercial centre & retail centre to thrive. I can't help the current economics of Dover's , other than try to work with others to inject new capital into the area & attempt togive it a fighting chance.
Someone said it is not joined up. I hope my posting earlier gave an indication that it is joined up, maybe not as comprehensively as some would like.
The Council debate & decide the final, wider LDF [LOCAL PLAN] in December. All components that are necessary to deliver policy direction for the next twenty years will be offered.
We have achieved Growth Point status that brings support for infrastructure, we have both regeneration partners in place in Dover. I could go on.
I am personally sorry we cannot accomodate all views, but those views were part of original deliberations that were discounted as not doing the job.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
12 November 2008
11:279062Paul
Very many thanks for your response but in order to clarify one last point.I wish to state quite clear that I have "no vested professional or commercial interests in Dover."
I am retired and my interests are further afield, like most residents I only want what is best for Dover and if that can be combined with something that is not unattractive and stimulates the mind as well as the local economy so much the better.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
12 November 2008
12:119067Where are the philanthropists? I really wish there where some!