Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
Having read the published, 'Strategy for Play' I would like to add that (despite all the hard work I am sure went into it) it is full of innaccuracies and as such provides a poor basis for decision making. In the report it lists three playgrounds in Town and Pier of which one is run down, one had the equipment removed years ago, and is usually overgrown with brambles, while the third is in Priory, Elms Vale and Maxton and has also been stripped of equipment. Keith is right on both his main points (somebody shoot me now), we do need youth representation and stripping these play areas will only create greater problems in the future. As I understand it at the moment DDC has been talking to town councils about the play areas but with the idea that they will own them and decide their fates while the town councils will pay for their upkeep. This would severely limit the options of the town councils in long term planning for them.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Having now seen the new park, let me first start with a positive.
"IT'S BRILLIANT" The design is great, nice new safe flooring nice equipment. Well done everyone on that front.
I am going to try not to be to negative now, but it will be a little hard.
To say the park was FULL yesterday is a slight understatement. It was rammed, and at least 90% were little ones.
There were a small minority of skater kids there under the climbing equipment, but not major.
I did however question just one thing.
The Size of the park which is now finding itself trying to cope with an incredible amount of users. It was just chaos in there.
There was no-where near enough seating for the adults who wanted to watch their children play, and the poor kids were shoulder to shoulder trying to use the new stuff.
On the way back home I came via northbourne Ave play area, and at least 50 little ones playing on the park if you can call the run down out of date facilities that, and I felt sad for these kids. We have no real play areas as such for the little ones on the Hamlets estate, and I personally wouldn't want my kids treking down to Elms vale rec to use new equpment they might get. The Hamlets is a huge estate, lots of kids. I wonder when we will ever see the views of these kids taken into account regarding their park.
The system of choice of where these parks get a makeover is all wrong.
I know Priory ward appear to have been waiting a lifetime for new faciities.
We keep hearing consultations were carried out, but with who?? Were they the children these areas are to be provided for?? How many children were asked?? age range??
So many questions, and very few answers. Sad really to think us adults can sit and make decisions about everything without really finding out how the kids feel.
Guest 648- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 258
Thanks for the praise there Mandie.Yes children were consulted .Northbourne Avenue HRA funded will remain open and will at some time in the future get new equipment.I dont think it will be as spendlid as Pencester.We donot have a large budget and there are seven areas to be maintained.
We can not put back trhe clock but some councillors wanted the Skate park moved to another park as it was obvious Pencester would get crowded,however the majority won the day.
Talking of consultation as the councillor who went to London to view equipment I maybe older but Im not out of touch.
I think Mandie meant realistic consultation, which does not imply exclusion by age, but may imply inclusion by volume.......that is, not how old or worthy were the people consulted but how many young and possibly "excluded" people and/or families.....
Guest 648- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 258
Yes the consultation was far reaching.Consultation took place in Pencester also Marke Wood when many people gave their views.We have a Play Stratergy Group facilatated by DDC.We hace representatives on there from Sure Start ,Town Councils etc.Their input was most useful.We also sent out questionares so consultation was very wide.To obtain the lottery funding we had to do this.WE do have to do our home work.It was not a case of a few councillors making decisions.When you have elected representatives take an MP we donot question every thing he or she does.Every Four years the residents go to the vote and they decide who will be their councillor.
Must get ready now for Connaught Park event.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
I have just passed through and had a look at the new facilities. Excellent and there were many children benefitting from them.
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
Yes it really is good and that seems to be the consensus!
Sue I have to say I felt the public consultation was a rather empty gesture to fulfil the lottery fund criteria. None of the elements discussed where included from both consultations I took my son to. Now I am not stupid enough to think that the public could design something like the play area (although I'm sure some could) , but the final proposal put forward to the public, bears very little resmblance to what we were given (what we got was actually better) this just exposes the consultation for the farcical process that it was! I appreciate the councillors do their 'homework' but it still doesn't make them designers, town planners, road engineers or socialogists. There is still a massive lack of openess in these decisions that just disenfranchises communitites even more!
We should be making the decisions through our representatives, not our representatives making decisions they think may represent us.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
dt
nail on the head time there.
sadly, i think that genuine public consultation will not happen locally in the near future.
meetings will be called, everyone invited to give their opinion, decision already made in advance.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
Mandie/DT1 ETC I to feel pencester to be a wonderful facility, but at what cost? not in financial terms, but other wards, Im pleased to hear that SUE tells us Northbourne play area in tower hamlets will now survive, as it is well used and desperatly needed. So what I have said all long is that we need meaningfull debate about the play areas, even now its confusng, are you saying SUE that your 9 or 10 sites are the only ones to survive and rest will close over time? or re you saying Town councils have agreed(or nearly agreed)to take on some sights? if so which ones, and if so can town cllrs tell me how they came to there decision and who did they consult?
I think its like MANDIE says its very difficult not to be negative when you are faced with a major play area closure leaving 9 or 10 major sites, and it has shown with pencester that the site is popular and already outgrown itself by the number of people who use it.
I appreciate finances, but its difficult to weigh this all up when youths make use of these play areas and soon many ill close, so a lot more youths are likely to be hanging around in the streets, this will create a feeling of anti social behaviour, which in turn will get the youths moved on, which in turn will cause youth resentment to society.
so round and round we will go on this one.
Im pleased Chris P and I CAN AGREE on this one, the consultation document was pointed out for its errors, and it would be difficult to base your case on a flawed document that doesn't even put the play areas in the correct ward,
doesnt make you feel confident for the future does it?
I'm becoming realy passionate on this issue as i'v seen now that reading between the lines the District council has decided to have 9 or 10 major sites across the District, so i presume for all of Dover the major site is PENCESTER
Havng seen SUES latest comments on northbourne Av im now interested in what new plans? have come p for maintanance of other play areas in Dover, how was that decision reached? who was consuted, what were the results?
I'm also interested in our own cllrs from the town council (some post on here)to come forward and let us know if they have been in consultation with the District council on play areas, if so what was the outcome? is the town council to ake on some play areas? if so which ones? and how as the decision reached?
Its all about openess, Its been like pulling teeth to get these answers, which were reasonable questions and having had posters sometimes being critical of me for daring to tell people play areas may close we are now likely to be faced with this prospect.
All im asking is for openess, and maybe some YOUTH engagement would help,
lets see what posters come back with, im interested in the town councillors views on there position in all of this
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
Keith this is certainly a subject I don't think we will ever disagree on. I personally would like to see DDC hand over control (not just maintainance costs) on to the town council I would support the creation of a published programme of restoration works to them. Despite the limits on our resources this is an area where I feel the town council should look to investing by working out a long term budget and letting people know where their areas stand on the list. Of course everyone will disagree with whatever order of priorities is given but at least they would know that something was going to be done.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
'A published programme of restoration' this is what it should be about Chris, I totally agree. The openess that we are all talking about is well overdue and not forthright from DDC. No one will commit to any kind of final statements about all the parks, closure or renovation. Keith got a pounding on here a while back for saying about imminent closures and it would have been a perfect opportunity to confirm or dispute his claims. Even if people were told of closures at least it would restore some kind of dialogue between those making decisions and the public. People do not have faith if all of our representative do is focus on successes and not the negatives. This denial of fallibility just lowers the level of trust we have in officials (so clear from GB as of late).
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
DT1/Chris
Thank you for your comments, DT1 your right, many went for me just for telling the truth!!
the question now is, what happens next?
Chris, your correct in away forward, but at present all we keep hearing is, maybe there are some talks with the town council but no one knows if they have taken place what happened, or the outcomes.
Its fair to say that all locals would be happy if they were consulted or even knew the latest position and how many play areas may be taken on by town council, im sure locals would welcome an imput.
Maybe even talk to the youth about it?(keith, please don't get to radical lol)
Whilst we are fed lke mushrooms, Sue has clearly said there are to be just 9 or 10 play areas across the whole District, and there is a programme of play area closures which is ongoing, so maybe our Town cllrs can update us on what talks may have taken place between the District and Town councils, what were the outcomes? and what happens next?
Dont dilly dally to long, cos the longer we wait the more play areas that will have equipment removed.
Over to you town cllrs theres a challenge for you to enlighten us on the full details to date. and your views on the future from a town council point of view
Guest 652- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 595
Dear All
As far as I am aware, the Town Council will not be taking over the play areas
Sheila
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
I took Natascha to the Pencester Play area today,Thursday,at 7.35am.We couldn't use it yesterday afternoon as it was mobbed by ''taller children''.There were 2 mothers and another father there with their kids who had all had the similar idea to me..you have to get there early so the young ones can play in safety.
The facilities are super except for the lobsided roundabout which spins the child off and dumps them on the floor as it circles round.One mother did try and warn me before Natascha was uncermoniously dumped on her jacksie.
A particular individual..Jan P Jordan has felt it necessary to scrawl their name or 'tag' all over the lovely wooden climbing frame in red felt tip pen.Another graffitti 'artist' has left his/her 'tag' all over the top of the larger steel slide.The stone benches have also been attacked by a red marker pen.
The zip slide is again working and Natascha loved it..but she had to be lifted onto the seat as some bright spark had decided to tie a knot in it to make it higher off the ground and more suitable for 'bigger' kids.Probably a safety requirement but clarification would be appreciated as the 2 young mothers had difficulty lifting their under 7's onto the zip slide seat.
Finally the use of chopped bark is lovely in ones garden but as last nights wind proved its no match for the elements so consequently the playground is littered with bark shavings.
My advice to parents of youngsters is to get down to Pencester early if you want your kids to enjoy the super facilities and as one mother said to me ''without the fruity language billowing from the skatepark''
Marek and Natascha
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
marek
this great facility that only seems to have been around a week or so,but the "older children" seem to want to take it over.
unless there is a warden present now and again, this is what will happen.
sorry to hear about the teething troubles with some of the rides, is there a telephone number there to report the
problems to?
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
Ok so lets get the debate going again on the bigger picture, if the Town council is NOT taking on any play areas(so Sheila says) that means we are to lose a large number of play areas very soon.
We will have just these super ? 9 or 10 sites across the District, now with Chris and I agreeing what can be done to move this forward? clearly the tory administration at the District have made there mind up to close play areas, the Town council not involved in taking any over, so are we just to sit back and allow this to happen?
The clock is ticking,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Guest 648- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 258
Keith you are a stirer .You know full well there will be numerous play areas across the district .Most villages have their own play areas plus nine or ten HRA and one or two in Deal to be considered by Deal Town Council.Elmsvale and Connaught Southern Housing have one in St Radigunds.Im not spending any more time as ypou are mischief making.
Be content that we are maintaing some .Perhaps you could suggest where we save money to pay for play areas little used and often situated in the wrong place.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
Sue
All I'v asked is for a list of play areas that will survive these massive cuts, if thats stirring then so be it.
Maybe someone will produce this list,which has still not been produced since my very first posting.
Guest 648- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 258
Can you not work it out from the areas I have told you about.Look at the Strategy.Im not Community any longer its now Cllr Collor And Cllr Mrs Rook/
Problems with Housing I can answer.
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
This might be just a little controversial but perhaps we should remember that 'council' property is actually property belonging to the people of the district. It is acquired by the councils on behalf of the people and maintained out of the peoples taxes on their behalf. People do not want their money spent on expensive reports and studies into what is already obvious, they want it spent on maintaining and improving their services. Playgrounds are a vital part of childhood and provide exercise and lessons in social inter-action and thus need to be maintained. Saying that there will still be some left does not take away from the fact that some of those close to peoples homes, where the children can be safely within earshot, are going to be closed. This is too much like Thanet Liesures statement when they took over the running of the town hall, 'it will not be closing it just won't be open as often. We do not need semantics we need playgrounds for our children. If DDC do not want the responsibility they should pass them on to other bodies that do, at the end of the day they will still belong to the people that elect us.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour