Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
#41
BERN
I don't totally agree weith your comments ref holiday jails.
but I do think prisons should be a place criminals wouldn't want to go, like making them like like boot camps.
bit harsh, but required.
#42
They already are, Keith. Not a daily grind of sewing mailbags or breaking rocks, but a daily loss of autonomy and freedom and a lack of normal lives - doesn't sound like much, does it? But it is.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
#43
BERN;
Intersting post
tell me then, why some or loads don't worry when sentenced to prison cos threy know its cushdy?
me, if i got one day locked up i would hate it
#44
Nothing to do with it being cushy, more to do with learned behaviours, inadequate personalities and weakness, and finding a real way out. And there are some for whom the security is the only reliable thing they have - that is a seperate issue.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
#45
Keef
Basically nearly 84% of inmates suffer from either drug or alcohol addiction.Most commit crimes in order to feed their 'habit'.
60% are illiterate and find it difficult to obtain any form of useful and gainful employment.Once they obtain a criminal record is near on impossible to find any sort of work especially in todays unemployment market.
A large proportion come from broken homes and have not had the benefit of a happy family enviroment so some view prison as 'their home'.
Life 'inside' is far from "cushdy" as you put it. Most have to contend with 23 hours behind doors,let out for meals only and exercise as when staff levels permit.TV,s,Games Consoles etc are only given to the very well behaved who have progressed through the system to a position of trust.
Inmates are subject to random urine tests and strip searches.Visits are allowed 3 per month. Education classes are over subscribed and with over crowding and cuts are very few and far between.
They have to share cells with complete strangers and in most cases complete nutters and a variety of wildlife and insects.
Of course then there are the beatings by by both bullies and officers followed by rapes,thefts from cells etc.
Why some go back? its because they know no better and never get the chance to improve their lot.
Until there is a complete rethink of incarceration the system perpetuates itself with no hope of rehabilation and no chance of solving our raising crime statistics.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
#46
if he did it yes,if he didnt no,full stop.
#47
Marek, you describe the type of prison life they deserve. Good for you!
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
#48
Who puts the stories around that prison is like a holiday camp, if they're not like that at all ?
I've always thought that prisons should be awful (not with beatings and rapes etc.) so people will not want to go back inside.
Those who are inside should be the ones who are a danger to society; those who have committeed non-violent crimes should have things taken awasy from them - like money from crimes, or their assets sold.
Overseas people should be sent back to where they came from. If thy don't say (where they came from) they don't stay.
Roger
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
#49
MAREK;
I take your point, but don't agree
Let me explain why;
When I was a kid we had no money, in fact very poor, but still I knew right from wrong, and although society gave us little as a kid, I knew how to behave, and occupy myself.
I do understand that more needs to be done to stop people offending in the first place, ie looking at broken homes etc, but none the less crime is a crime.
Nice that Roger and I are close to being at one on this(blimey, getting worried im talking like a tory lol)
We do need some drastic changes, to prison, to society, to the benefits system
All will take time
But without it, we go no where
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
#50
Keef
I take your point but what you may be failing to recognise is (a) unlike you most offenders did not have the beneefit of a happy childhood and (b) to feel 'happy' they have become reliant upon chemicals to obtain these 'highs'.
Until we understand the problem and try and treat it at source we will never escape the ever increasing prison population.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
#51
Marek -
Keef - you were, then as Marek says, one of the lucky ones. It is really difficult if we are from decent homes to understand what it is like to not know any different to crap. If you grow up from day one witnessing parental abuses, drug abuse, drunks, thfet, daily brutality, how on earth are you top know any better? Picture it: you are born, you learn that Mum and Dad hit each other and shoot up, you don't se anything else because the Smiths next door do the same. Your brother is in prison so it isn't unusual. Yous sister is a slapper who smokes dope to forget she is hit by her father. It is nothing to do with lack of money or hardship and all to do with environment and parental guidance. It's nothing to do with being intrinsically bad (although there are some of those and they should stay inside!!) but about not having the opportunity to learn and really absorb anything different.
I knwo guys who go inside, do their best within their limitations, they are nice guys with the potential to contribute. They leave, get outside the gates, and there is nothing and no-one. Can't claim benefits yet, can't get a job as they have a record, go back to the ame environment that encouraged and rewarded the behaviours that got them banged up, can't get accomodation as they have no jobm can't get a job..................it goes on. These are not excuses, they are hard facts and whatever your bias they are facts that need to be looked at and addressed if we want change. And what we realy want is for crims to stop doing it!!
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
#52
Bern
Exactly..well put
My best man a Principal Officer in the prison service was awarded an MBE in this years Queens Birthday Honours list for his services to young offenders after 30 odd years he hasn't given up hope of rehabilatation and he's a 'front line' officer. Maybe we, the general public, shouldn't give up on them either?.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#53
roger
if they refuse to say where they come from, where do we send them?
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
#54
Good posting`s above, and maybe thing`s would be a whole lot better if the gutter media and press showed both sides to everything.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
#55
BERN/MAREK
I have worked hard in the past to help such people, but lets get a few things correct.
1; My childhood was not happy, but I won't go there as It's nowt to do with forum, but never the less factual.
2; Sometimes it's also about helping yourself.
I iike to explaimn by example in what have come acrooss in my life.
EXAMPLE;
Whilst on the county council I encouraged a senior yout club in another part of town, many of those attending didnt know how to communiucate nor would they do anything to help thremselves, most happy to sit back and wait for some one else to provifde.
This hasn't changed today, but I stuck by them, did what I could to help and encourage, but also point out, this is also about how can they help themselves and show others out there that they are interested and can do it.
Sadly to many do gooders wanted to give them evrything no matter how bad they were, with little in the way of pointing out errors of there ways.
It was up hill to say the least.
Also to show I do have compassion, The town and pier activities club which Gotrdon Cowan and I run, was set up to take youth off gthe street, many just hung around on streets, many had no social skills.
We gave them an insight into how things can be better, football training sessions boys and girls, put them in a registered league against realy good players, but overf time they learnt the socials skills.
Last season sawe one of the teams reach the semi finals!!!! bearing in mind many 3 years ago didnt know what a football was, thats a real challenge.
So what im saying is you do need to strart at a very early age pre school even , and get youth on track, but also parents need help(some)on how to parent,
So yes, a lot to do, but please don't think i havn't seen the darker side of life just because i hold a view.
#56
All this 'social welfare' stuff would be okay, except folks, people have been committing crimes for centuries. It has very little to do with social background and more to do with human nature. We've been 'nice and soft' towards criminals since Elizabeth Fry kicked off the 'do-gooder movement', and where has it got us? Nowhere. So, we might as well stop all this "dear diddums" rubbish and give 'em hell. It makes no difference to them but makes us, the offended innocent feel so much better.
Guest 693- Registered: 12 Nov 2009
- Posts: 1,266
#57
To many who choose the life of law breaking, prison is a risk that comes with the job. The fact is that many choose the risk of going to prison because they are safe in the knowledge that they won't lose their homes and be straight back on benefits after serving their time - and in many cases, the time they serve is not a sufficient deterrent to warrant changing the lifestyle they choose.
True friends stab you in the front.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#58
i think that the post from keith was most constructive.
basically get them young give them a sense of self respect and some success will come.
sid points out quite rightly that some are basically bad irrespective of their background, just a facet of human nature.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
#59
I think it's the way forward
some you will catch.
but lets hope all the agencies start listerning soon
cos prison is not the answer for all
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
#60
Prison officers are there to stop "beatings and rapes", if they don't there is a disciplinary proceedure for them. If a prisoner is in the cell for 23 hours a day it is for their protection, or to protect other prisoners from them.
If you do a google search on some well known murderers and violent criminals you will be surprised to find how many maintain their own websites.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour