Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
Now that the dust has settled on the Carnival for another year I want to put the suggestion forward that it should return to its earlier shorter route. It was interesting to note in Rhys's recent feature on carnivals in the Dover Express where he harked back to the big crowds of long ago. Heady days. Probably those days will never return. But just a few years ago I feel there was more excitement generated with the shorter route.
This year along Castle St where Big Dave has the annual party, there was nobody lining the streets. The street was empty...or almost. Yet a few short years ago this street was several people deep. Briony was smaller then and we used to have to search around for a place to see but the atmosphere was great..people all agog waiting for the parade. Not now though. Very few people there.
This is because the Carnival travels to the people now, the people dont travel to the carnival. The second option is the best one. Everything of worth is worth travelling to and people do and will. Everybody a few years back came into town to see the show. Much better in my view.
OMG!!! How many times do we have to go through this?????
I shall explain ONE last time for those who didn't get it the first 20 times.
The route was changed to start out at lewisham road for 2 reasons.
1. because it was the start point of the carnival years ago
2. Russel Street car park coming under the DTIZ programme, a new route had to be found SOONER rather than later. It is totally irrelevant that the car park is still sitting there, we have to put our plans into gear, for a more permanent route as soon as we can rather than wait until we had no option.
Pray tell how we make the route shorter??????? Missing out market Square would be a disaster, as would missing out the town.
There are NO other places suitable to assemble the parade than where we are now. They have ALL been looked into, and we have major issues surrounding some of the other options that might have been available, such as Sea front, Elms Vale, Connaught park, Netto car park, blah,blah,blah.
The route we have now is THE ONLY suitable route.
People are never happy no matter what you do. Only this week a woman has complained we missed out London Road.
Sorry peeps, but we have health and safety to think about with that one. I will not allow innocent participants to be pelted with coins, and then you have the extra policing to consider.
To suggest people do not travel into Dover to watch carnival. Well to be fair can you blame them??? Are there any shops still open at 6pm at night??? We wanted to go at 3pm and we all saw what hassle that caused because there was 1, yes 1 complaint. The idea of carnival is to generate tourism, and going at 6pm at night does not do that, but I fought and fought, to no avail.
What else would you like me to do??? We do the best with the tools we are given.
If I sound crabby over this then it is because I am. We have just given Dover its best carnival in 15 years, and still it isn't enough.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
Jeezez Mandie no need to get all aereated ! its only a debating idea. Its always worth hearing ideas and suggestions surely. A few years back the carnival used to assemble in the Russell St Carpark fairly easily. It went up Castle St then and around Market Sq and on up around the town and because the route was shorter there was more of a crowd congested into the shorter area...giving football match feverish proportions. Always good that.
Good to see you are at least optimistic that the DTIZ is about to happen soon.
Guest 652- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 595
Paul
The carnival has nearly always started at River, it is not the route that is the problem, it is the apathy of the people, the lack of community spirit, and the lack of local business interest, years ago if a business entered a float, it was decorated with some theme or other, and then the name of the business, but they do not seem to do it anymore, floral shops, would either decorate the Miss Dover float, or put a floral display on a float of their own, what businesses do not realise is, that by entering something like the carnival and making an effort to put on a decorated float they would be promoting that business, also we have all the legal rig-ma-role that goes with the organising, very daunting, it does not give you any encouragement
Sheila
And what has led to this apathy? It was there long before the credit crunch appeared. Clearly there are many factors, but Local councils and reps (present company excepted of course!) bear a large part of the responsibility: it is their remit to cohese and promote the local communities and Dover, and they significantly fail in this.
Sheila you are so right. nothing more to add on what you have said. We had a lot more businesses take part this year and that is always good. Carnival is a great PR tool and even if you cannot get a float together, then fancy dress walkers can help.
Paul I am aereated because we have gone over this subject so many times before that it just borders on madness now.
Do people honestly think that these ideas have not been looked at?? Trust me we have looked at every single option, and there really is no other route option available than the one we have now, so we have to live with it, whether we like it or not.
I never said I was confident that DTIZ would happen soon. What I know is that we had to change the route because at some point Russel st would become unavailable to us, and we had to plan for the future of carnival rather than wait until the last minute. This was on the reccomendation of DDC events group and other agencies involved.
That's just the way it is.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
Sheila yes re River start but those were the days when the Carnival was a huge thing with huge crowds. Those were different times when people didnt have computers or tv so there were enough people to throng the entire route. Now the crowds on the streets are a bit sparse in areas... thin because of the long route. Its a fair suggestion ...Im not getting at mandie so not sure what she's getting worked up about.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
Has this suggestion been over dabated..I didnt know.
Because it has all been discussed before Paul, and after about 20 times of going over and over the same ground it becomes a tad annoying.
What is being suggested from the thread is that we simply haven't looked at all this, and I don't mind telling anyone if we have looked at it once we have looked at it a thousand times.
What route would you suggest paul out of curiosity?
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
mandie,it was nice to see you yesterday.and thankyou for clearing up a few points yesterday.
I am also irrate cus after Saturday I am exhausted, but already work has started on next years parade.
Putting together our application etc
Stew and I have been working on another fundraising idea this week which we will be undertaking over the August bank holiday, and to say we gonna need lots of plasters is an understatement. We have events to attend this weekend, so not suprising I am tired and just a tad irritated.
Our work never stops, and having to defend our route is not something I particulary want to have to do.
No problem Brian.
Guest 652- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 595
The route is OK, as I said it is the apathy that has killed, Mandie and I are die-hards if you like to call us that, whatever is thrown at us we will try and find a way around it, there were more of us a few years ago, but then the authorities started to throw different spanners in the works, and started to grind people down, thus the old die-hards gradually giving up, people can only take so much. Then you have the closure of the small businesses they used to love to take part, and promote themselves, but we do not have many of those kind of businesses left anymore.
Sheila
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
Mandie you have to understand we arent privy to what your private discussions are re the route. I didnt know...I thought the River route was just one of the options available. I didnt know it was the only one.
Im not an expert but the route a few years back in the Sid Perkins era was good because I remember we used to photograph it assembling in Russell Square and the music could be heard all over the town drawing the people in with curiosity. Then it made its way out of the White Horse side of the carpark then along a crowded Castle St, around a thronged, and I mean thronged Market Sq. Then up through the town passed Boots and at some point there further up it turned right again and did the circle. It had a sort of stadium feel about the venue.
Of course Im just suggesting that this was possibly the best route for the new era...but of course Im not privy to the technical discussions that goes on with the various bodies.
Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 6,020
I must spring to Mandies defence on this .The longer route had to be brought back because of the intended closure of Russel Street carpark .Lots of locations were looked at for an assembley point but were deemed inpractible.
Yes Sheila is right apathy has set in .You ask the children if they are going to watch the carnival and they would rather watch TV .Hence my opposition for the giant TV.We just keep encouraging children tol the watch TV .The good old days of community have gone .I recall people in River used to line the route from Lewisham Road and it was a job to get a front line view The shops take no interest donot even decorate their windows We used to have best window display competititions .
No one wants to put in the effort
Until we educate our children that people and community are important then the rot will progress.
Im off to Alkham Fete tomorrow and River Fete on Sunday ..I keep trying to fly the flag
I know how you feel Mandie ,join the club .
Guest 650- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 542
Goodness me. Speaking as someone who knows how hard volunteers work, and how many hoops they have to jump through I'm just going to commend Mandie and her committee and the Court for all their hard work.
These days it's a miracle we get anything at all, bearing in mind the restrictions we all work under, and other problems as well (some of which are downright unnecessary!).
My congratulations and praise to the real grafters in our town, who work themselves into the ground and for no pay either (indeed, often bearing costs personally!), and who may then, after all that, end up with flak and criticism. If anyone ever wonders why something voluntary happens the way it does, then the easiest way is to ask the person who knows (which also spares that volunteer a heap of extra work, stress, and time).
You'll spot that person who knows easily, by the way - it's the one who's racing around leaving trails of dust behind - the one who's usually bouncing from place to place like a demented ping-pong ball, and who sartorially tends to resemble that well-known fly with sky-hued behind.
Guest 644- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,214
Blinking heck - reading this lot above any stranger would think Dover carnival was dying on its feet. I thought it was the best carnival for years, the most floats and many, many people watching. I watched it from the Louis Armstrong and I can tell you that end of Maison Dieu Road was packed. The world doesn't begin and end in Castle Street you know! How quickly we forget the tumbleweed blowing down the road after England's defeat last year on the same night as the carnival. This year was so much better.
Well done to Mandie, all the other organisers, the participants and all those who put time and effort into creating the floats. It was a good show.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Mandie - many of us who wish the carnival well have had the same thoughts and I can see your problem and have no doubt that this has been a subject of regular debate.
Conglatulations of an excellent carnival, DCAL is going from strength to strength.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
Yes it was a good carnival and thats not in dispute but a bit of aftermatch analysis as to why Castle St was empty is surely worth looking at. This street used to be full.
Mandie goes off like a bag of cats if anyone even mentions the thing. Surely a bit of feedback from the punter standing in the street might be worth hearing. I still say over the long route the crowds are dispersed too thinly to render atmosphere...thats my view and Im sticking to it.
yes I do go off like a bag of cats Paul, why???????? cus we have to keep going over the same ground every year. After a while it drives ya up the bl***y wall. It's comes across as nothing more than nit picking.
"yeah it was a good carnival BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBUUUUUUUUUUTTTTTTTTTTTTT "
We are not idiots in DCAL we do think about these things. If you can come up with a solution let me know will ya, cus we aint found one yet.