Sid Pollitt
27 November 2008
23:029925A senior Conservative MP has been arrested and charged on suspicion of conspiring to commit misconduct in a public office. A very serious matter I believe.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
28 November 2008
06:569927I believe it's the Shadow Immigration Minister Damian Green.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
28 November 2008
08:069928marek it is damian green.
Sid Pollitt
28 November 2008
15:509939The report last night was that he'd been charged which it now appears he was not. I think they, the Police, are trying to gather evidence against a junior Home Office employee who's been leaking information [an illegal act]. The Tories, who prosecuted Clive Ponting and Cathy Massitter, are getting on their high horses and getting hot under their collars.
At least they can be grateful it aint the usual fingers in the till or giving their family members public funds for doing nowt crimes their like have been caught for in the past.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
30 November 2008
17:4510015The Tories are doing the rounds this sunday via newspapers and TV condemning this whole episode out of hand. They are aghast that any member of their frontbench should be held or should be spied upon. But in truth isnt he only experiencing what many others go through. Indeed it is known that widespread phonetapping and monitoring goes on and probably even here in Dover. In fact wasnt there something in the local papers that DDC gave approval of local listening in something like 50 cases this year alone. Im sure I read that, but dont quote me as totally accurate as Im relying on old memory.
Im sure even lowly me has had a bit of surveilance in the past. Put your head above any parapet and be Irish at the wrong time and..well you can guess the rest.
The Conservatives want the Prime Minister to condemn the police for their action. But no he shouldnt. It is indeed an unusual step for the police to be carrying out such a situation with a Shadow Cabinet member, but if they felt there is crime taking place then they should investigate it without interference from politicians.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
30 November 2008
19:1410020Paul
The arrest stemmed from an earlier investigation into serious leaks from that dept by a senior civil servant.He was arrested Nov 11th.Greens arrest is part of that inquiry.
The Home Secretary stated that she did not know that Green was to be arrested she also denied signing any phone tapping order.She also refused to apologise to Green or his family.
I think there is more to this story than meets the eye and it should be quite interesting to watch the story unfold and see how it pans out.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
30 November 2008
20:2810021paul
i remember the bugging in the late sixties and seventies.
having an irish name and background and involved with norther ireland through my work, logic would dictate that i would be of some minor interest by the authorities.
it did not cross my mind at the time until one evening the phone rang and when i picked it up, my previous conversation was played back to me, it was explained to me later that this was a common glitch in a bugging system.
today it must be fairly standard to bug a rival, there is a full colour ad in a pencester road shop window, where a private detective openly advertises about electronic surveillance.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
1 December 2008
17:1910037I am astonished at what I have read here. I am quite sure that if it was a Conservative Government and it was a Labour Shadow Minister you would all be outraged by this.
Leaks from Government departments have been an essential weapon in the hands of the Opposition since time immemorial, it is a part of the fabric of opposition.
In the 1930's, during his 'Wilderness Years', Winston Churchill 'conspired' with Civil Servants to obtain information from the MoD about how poorly we were prepared for war. Duncan Sandys, as well, and in his case there was an attempt for the law to intervene, only for him to be protected by Parliamentary Priviledge. Are you suggesting that these great public figures should have been treated the way Damian Green has?
If so, then what about Gordon Brown? He regularly used leaked information to hold the Major Government to account. Sid mentions Clive Pontin, that was a very different matter as he was a 'leaking' Civil Servant and at no time was it suggested that those to whom he leaked information should be arrested.
Policians from left to right, Tony Benn to David Davis, journalists from left to right, Jackie Ashley to Quentin Letts, are united in their opposition to this outrage. Labour MPs (who see themselves in an Opposition role soon) are joining Conservatives and Libdems in their indignation.
This is not a scandal about any wrongdoing or sleeze. This is not a matter of sensitive documents of national security being exposed (as in Churchill's time). This is about the exposing of information that embarrassed the Government, that is all. It was about illegal immigrants being approved to work as security guards for instance. It was all about matters of national interest.
In the past it is only in places such as Zimbabwe where opposition politicians get arrested in this way. That is the depths to which this wretched excuse for a Government has plunged this country. 20 Anti Terrorist police used to arrest him and raid his homes and offices. Police who must have much more important matters to deal with.
This is a matter of grave Constitutional concern and considerable importance.
Make no mistake this is very serious indeed. Brown is doing his 'McCavity' act again. Smith uses weasel words. The Speaker refuses to answer a simple and straight question.
Heads will role, make no mistake. I suspect that we will see the Speaker sacked or forced to resign. Smith likewise may be forced out. Even Brown himself....
One suggestion I read was that Mr Speaker should be forced out and 'hands laid' on Damian Green to drag him to the Speakers chair as a way for the House to show their support for him and to re-assert the supremacy of Parliament. We will see....
Sid Pollitt
1 December 2008
17:2510040I think the Tories are a little too outraged for my liking. There's a criminal investigation going on and I wonder what going to come out: there is reports that this civil servant had applied for a job with Green, did Green then see an opportunity to groom this person?
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
1 December 2008
17:5210044The point is Sid, it is not just Tories who are outraged. Below is a sample of extract from commentators, mostly from the left plus a policeman.
Henry Porter (The Guardian) ""No action by the authorities could have better revealed the decay in the chassis of parliamentary democracy. It captures everything - the seeming politicisation of the police, the unprincipled brass neck of the home secretary, the degradation and failure of the parliamentary authorities and the growing confusion in Labour between the roles of the government and state.""
James Forsyth (Spectator) "If what Damian Green did was illegal, opposition politicians have been committing illegal acts for as long as anyone can remember. (Even if the leaks were being encouraged then that is hardly new). The power of the state is such that the benefit of the doubt should go to the opposition in these matters....""
Jackie Ashley (The Guardian) ""You can't separate politics from policing, and you never have been able to: political judgments are so often behind what the police do. In this case, it is simply risible to push off the responsibility for the invasion of Green's home and offices by anti-terrorist officers on to the police and nameless "officials".
Norman Baxter, ex police chief, (The Mail) ""make no mistake, the arrest of Damian Green and the search of his home and offices as a result of an investigation into an alleged offence of 'conspiracy to commit misconduct in public office' will have a profound impact on our democratic freedoms.""
The last word to Tony Benn, ex Labour Minister (BBC). "I may sound strangely medieval, but once the police can interfere with Parliament, I tell you, you are into a police state.""
Does that not get accross to you the seriousness of what has happened. If you claim to be a supporter of democracy then how can you possibly dismiss so lightly what has happened. I cannot remember an issue that has brought together, as one, figures as diverse as those quoted just in this post.
Sid Pollitt
1 December 2008
17:5910046The way I look at it is there has been arrests and the Police are conducting an investigation. We should wait to see the outcome. Maybe Aitken will lend Green his rusty sword of truth.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
1 December 2008
20:1610061barry
you seem to be contradicting yourself a bit there.
all sections of the media and politics have expressed disquiet about the affair.
1 December 2008
21:5210069I think Aitken left his trusty sword in prison where he left his convenient new Faith in God.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
1 December 2008
22:0010071i hear that lord archer is already writing a book on the subject.
something to avidly look forward to.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
1 December 2008
23:1410074What on earth are you talking about howard...
I have said that disquiet (to put it mildly) is from across the spectrum.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
1 December 2008
23:5210080barry
exactly what i said, now read your post of 4.19 pm today.
Guest 667- Registered: 6 Apr 2008
- Posts: 919
2 December 2008
00:2010083I do not remember this outcry when Tony Blair was arrested.
No one is above the law and if the police are of the opinion laws have been broken and questions need to be asked of an MP about it, no matter which party then so be it.
Was he charged, "No" is he innocent "Yes" until proven guilty in a court of law, that's our Freedom. So why do we have all this crap about a police state and Stalin etc, a man who killed millions. That to me is more of a disgrace that such comments are made by people who should know better.
Still I am sure as the weeks go by the truth will slip to the top of the pile.
2 December 2008
07:5410088It really is important to remember that being arrested is something of a neutral act - there is a stigma to arrest that should not be there.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
2 December 2008
07:5810089You are still not making sense howard.
Harry - a totally different issue. An investigation into corruption and the sale of honours is a totally different matter. I have already covered the differences between the two. Dont take my word for it, just look at the sweep of support for DG from across the political spectrum which would not have happened over a corruption case. The left on this forum excluded that is. you should be ashamed of yourselves.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
2 December 2008
09:2410091BarryW
What do the Left on this forum have to be ashamed of? Its a Tory MP and a failed Tory civil servant that have been arrested!!!Anyway there is very little we can do.We are not in possession of all the facts or the nature of the information passed from Galley to Green.We do not even know its security classification.Nor do you.
From what you're advocating the police have obviously made a wrongful arrest.Surely the best policy would be to let the judicial system runs its course before we start jumping up and down.
What's your position on the arrest of the civil servant who believed that by passing this information to Green that he would use this information wisely.Its just a coincidence that Galley failed to get elected as a Tory councillor coming 5th out of 7 candidates.
I am quite prepared to sit and allow this fiasco to run its course before making accusations or defending Green.The truth will out.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
