Paul Watkins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 9 Nov 2011
- Posts: 2,226
For the record only 5 members of the then Council voted against the investment in the White Cliffs Experience and not all were Labour. It received ALL party support and had Labour members/supporters on its working groups prior to opening.
Watty
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
the white cliffs experience allways seemed well attended every time I went to see it,may be the visitor numbers was placed to high to start with,along with the entry price.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
it did win a design award and people that i know that actually went were impressed by it.
what did they charge to get in brian?
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
cant remember off hand howard,may be some one from the council might know the pricing.
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
# 21........``Never apologise.....Never explain``
Paul Watkins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 9 Nov 2011
- Posts: 2,226
#25 Always correct the inaccuracies, otherwise they become the acccepted truth.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,806
How true
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,860
the labour group was against the white elephant and not 5 as mr watty is trying to imply
it was opposed at the time, and at the first opportunity dealt with
public perception at the time was against putting all the eggs in one basket and wasting over £21million
it went well for a few years but was a static display and as predicted, once visited those visitors wouldnt return.
numbers fell, and losses mounted.
the tories at the time were warned
thankyou reg for correcting and i didnt want to embarass watty
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
Best to.......`` Always correct the inaccuracies, otherwise they become the accepted truth.``
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,860
true reg
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 673- Registered: 16 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,388
"Couldn't run a corner shop" comes to mind on reading all the above. The WCE had the potential to be a run-away success with the right management and leadership. Sobering to read that a £21 million enterprise was placed in the hands of a shower of well meaning incompetents who were so obviously floundering so far out of their depth.
It is the price of democracy I suppose, we get what we elect and the calibre of people capable of making informed visionary decisions that propel Dover forward do not offer themselves up for election.
Love the bit about "Their policies for regenerating Dover relied on attracting industry and acting as an 'enabler' rather than a provider of heritage and tourism facilities." Anybody aware of any industry attracted or heritage and tourism facilities enabled? You couldn't make it up.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,860
ED
Dont think paulw will like you speaking about him like that
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Paul Watkins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 9 Nov 2011
- Posts: 2,226
The records speak the truth.
The majority of the then Council voted for the project of ALL Parties. Some of ALL parties voted against , 5 I believe.
The Council at that time had 56 members , Conservatives, Labour and Lib Dems. Work the figures out.
It was not District Council operated but run by the company that ran the Jorvik Viking centre in York and the The Canterbury Tales in Canterbury.
Who they recruited may have been a problem , I suspect Ed. has someone in mind.
The concept was right , as was the Dover Town Gaol but was subsequently under invested when change was needed.
Watty
Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
This thread is a perfect example of everything that is wrong with local politics, finger pointing and point scoring while a fortune is wasted and an opportunity missed.
The lot of you should ashamed of yourselves, you show no embarrassment or remorse you just want to blame the opposition.
Pathetic
Guest 673- Registered: 16 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,388
Good morning Paul.
It would appear that Keith is in denial about who closed the WCE. It cannot be much fun to be stigmatised with having been associated with the most lamentable administration this town has had the misfortune to endure in modern times. I am just sad that so much money can be flushed down the drain on petty party political grounds. What hope does this poor old town have when such a major investment is dissipated by such abject incompetence?
Getting away from the politics, you are correct in my view regarding the management company. Despite their success with the Jorvik Centre, etc, they seemed bereft of ideas concerning the WCE. Equally the local manager was a very nice bloke but not equipped with the entrepreneurial skills required, again just my opinion.
The Dover Town Gaol was a minnow by comparison but you are correct in saying that the investment was not there when it was needed. I recall the exact figure quoted at the time for replacing the old film projectors, etc, with modern technology and it was not much in the scheme of things. Even less today with the way that the price of electronics has plummeted given that there is more processing power in a mobile phone than the space shuttle.
Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
[QUOTE="Ed Connell"]Good morning Paul.
It would appear that Keith is in denial about who closed the WCE. It cannot be much fun to be stigmatised with having been associated with the most lamentable administration this town has had the misfortune to endure in modern times. I am just sad that so much money can be flushed down the drain on petty party political grounds. What hope does this poor old town have when such a major investment is dissipated by such abject incompetence?
Absolutely spot on Ed, I was in trouble last year for calling DDC inept, it seems I was vindicated
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,860
Nice creeping Ed,
Theres no denial on my side, certainly i dont have records of past voting, but what i do recall was the public opinion at the time and the labour group opposing the £21 million being squandered in a static display whixch was proved that would lose money and did.
Could i correct some of the other comments,
I recall the town hall meeting and admit it was one of the worst public meetings ever held(although other administrations were as bad)
It goes back to my other threads where political groups allow officers to run the council, and make decisions which they shouldnt be making.
In my 25 years i fought against this both within the party i was then part of and in the chamber
often being at loggerheads with officers.
The problem being that most cllrs didnt have time to take on this role, or with some the interest in doing so.
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
# 13....fair comment Ed......but if you have entered the world of Local Government from a world of international business
and tried to make changes you would understand how these fiasco`s happen......
foot note......£ 21 million.....................present day value £ 32 million ....that kind of money would have provided a
better ``hospital`on a different site.....you pays yer money and takes yer choice.......not hind sight....we have been
campaigning for better health provision in Dover since the 1990`s.....since the postmortem dept closed......
# 34....David....you have hounded Keith for answers ,when you get them you return to criticise on another tangent
.....easy to `heckle` from the sidelines chum........friendly advice put up or shut up.
# 33............pure diversion from the matter in question......par for the course......
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,860
reg;
some interesting comments guv
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
Reg, yes I hounded Keith but I didn't get the answer you provided which is tens of £millions were wasted on his watch.
Your point about a hospital is very well made, and further evidence of inept politicians and their priorities.
Thanks for your "friendly advice" by the way, I'll continue to critics those who waste public money if its all the same to you old chap.