ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
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Captain Haddock
- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,925
For Heaven's sake, the world is full of 'borders' with nation states trading across them.
The EU wants to buy some of our 'stuff' and we wish to buy some of theirs and on 01/01/21 the 'stuff' will be of exactly the same specification as it was before midnight.
The last thing exporting businesses on both sides of the Channel want is for trade to become 'sticky', it's in nobody's interest.
Expect a couple of months horror stories of half a dozen widgets being held up at Calais written by frustrated Remainer journalists and after that nobody will notice the difference.
It's going to be alright.
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"Shall we go, you and I, while we can? Through the transitive nightfall of diamonds"
Pablo- Registered: 21 Mar 2018
- Posts: 614
Bob, almost all our exports to EU countries will enter through Calais/ Dunkerque so France has the responsibility of ensuring everything is hunky-dory before they let the trucks in. Can they be trusted to be pragmatic or will they insist on being totally officious as per usual?
Button
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,028
I suspect the French will be roughly as pragmatic and officious in enforcing EU rules as the 20-odd UK agencies will be in enforcing our rules. Just think of all that lovely data to play with!
(Not my real name.)
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
Pablo wrote:Bob, almost all our exports to EU countries will enter through Calais/ Dunkerque so France has the responsibility of ensuring everything is hunky-dory before they let the trucks in. Can they be trusted to be pragmatic or will they insist on being totally officious as per usual?
Unless a deal is negotiated to the contrary, they will continue to apply the same regulations as they (and every other EU state) is obliged to do to any 3rd country. There is nothing new here: it's been that way since Brexit was first thought of. It's called project reality.
And as for the Cap'n's mad musings, I stagger at the naivety of it all.
Why has the government have finally started planning for the inevitable then? Did you read Grant Schapp's magnum opus or are you just more knowledgeable than even he is as a matter of course?
Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,295
I still maintain that we'll do a deal - in Fergie time as it were. My assumption is based on the fact that the fish argument is a red herring, as we are only interested in the financial side - and fish, for all the political noise, is a rounding error on our GDP.
What I have less understanding on is the EU side, as they are driven by principle - something that seems lost on our negotiators.
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
Neil Moors wrote:I still maintain that we'll do a deal - in Fergie time as it were. My assumption is based on the fact that the fish argument is a red herring, as we are only interested in the financial side - and fish, for all the political noise, is a rounding error on our GDP.
What I have less understanding on is the EU side, as they are driven by principle - something that seems lost on our negotiators.
The ball is in Laughing Boy's court, Neil. It boils down to a question of whether economic pragmatism will triumph over ideology. There is no desire for a no deal on either side. Economically, there is no such thing as a good Brexit whatever the likes of Davies and Fox might have the gullible believing. You only have to look at this forum to see the extent of the gullibility that certain of our politicians continue to prey on.
Weird Granny Slater
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 7 Jun 2017
- Posts: 3,002
ray hutstone wrote:You only have to look at this forum to see the extent of the gullibility that certain of our politicians continue to prey on.
Could you remove your face-covering please, RH; it was a bit unclear. Thanks.
'Pass the cow dung, my dropsy's killing me' - Heraclitus
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
How even the Brexit championing Express has changed its tune. Subtitled from Project Fear to Project Reality.
Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,295
If we go no deal, the government is literally sticking it all on red, hoping that there are enough voters who will happily accept chaos into their lives, because we stuck a metaphorical two fingers up to the EU. I think that argument will last about a week before the “this is not what we were promised...” narrative takes over. And then we’ll get the “We always said it would take years to see the benefits” response.
For me, Labour exiting the debate has left the government stuck. There is nobody left to argue with on this, so it’s all down to them. Labour can come back on January 1.
Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,028
Neil Moors wrote:If we go no deal, the government is literally sticking it all on red, hoping that there are enough voters who will happily accept chaos into their lives, because we stuck a metaphorical two fingers up to the EU.
Any chaos there may be is hardly contingent upon the absence of a deal. As the "Brock" consultation document says, "Regardless of the outcome of the negotiations, there will therefore be changes for which UK businesses trading with the EU need to prepare. One key area of change relates to the new controls that will be placed on the movement of goods between Great Britain (GB) and the EU from 1 January 2021."
Of course, one does have to smile at the correct use in this instance of 'Great Britain' rather than 'United Kingdom'.
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(Not my real name.)
Pablo- Registered: 21 Mar 2018
- Posts: 614
Probably not fully correct use, Button, as the term Great Britain strictly refers only to the main island and does not include offshore islands such as the Isles of Wight, Man, Sheppey, Scilly, Anglesey, nor all the hundreds of Scottish islands plus Orkney/ Shetland.
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Dover Pilot- Registered: 28 Jul 2018
- Posts: 344
Captain Haddock wrote:
The EU wants to buy some of our 'stuff' and we wish to buy some of theirs and on 01/01/21 the 'stuff' will be of exactly the same specification as it was before midnight.
Afraid not. The most important commodity to the UK in this day and age is data and the specification is changing. Almost everything you do online since March is now being stored in the US under very different data laws whilst quietly waiting for that no deal decision. Good luck.
Weird Granny Slater- Location: Dover
- Registered: 7 Jun 2017
- Posts: 3,002
Pablo wrote:...the term Great Britain strictly refers only to the main island and does not include offshore islands such as the Isles of Wight, Man, Sheppey, Scilly, Anglesey, nor all the hundreds of Scottish islands plus Orkney/ Shetland.
You're thinking geographically, P; in the political sense (surely the document's sense) only the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands don't fit.
'Pass the cow dung, my dropsy's killing me' - Heraclitus
Chris- Forum Admin
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 17 Oct 2009
- Posts: 357
Dover Pilot wrote:Afraid not. The most important commodity to the UK in this day and age is data and the specification is changing. Almost everything you do online since March is now being stored in the US under very different data laws whilst quietly waiting for that no deal decision. Good luck.
Do you have a link with more information about this? Just curious what changed in March.
Dover Pilot- Registered: 28 Jul 2018
- Posts: 344
Chris wrote:Do you have a link with more information about this? Just curious what changed in March.
It's a minefield Chris but this article broadly explains what Google are doing. If you use the search giant you have probably been recently asked to accept changes in conditions with lots of small print:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-google-privacy-eu-exclusive/exclusive-google-users-in-uk-to-lose-eu-data-protection-sources-idUSKBN20D2M3Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,925
You seriously worry about Google? Data mining is certainly a 'thing'.
Personally I think the USA is basically 'on our side' which is why the guys down at Bude are tapping into the cables and passing info to our 'friends' (who under data law are not allowed to 'tap' US cuts without a court order).
Suspect US data security is much better than ours.
Meanwhile anyone on TicTok?
"Shall we go, you and I, while we can? Through the transitive nightfall of diamonds"
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
The oldest maxim in web science is that Google will know your daughter is pregnant way before you do. It's not just Google though - it's all social media. If you get fed up with it then DuckDuckGo is just as effective as Google and doesn't pass on data to anyone.
Ironically, TikTok is the least intrusive IMHO.
But if you're really worried then a VPN and TOR pretty much guarantees total anonymity.
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Dover Pilot- Registered: 28 Jul 2018
- Posts: 344
Captain Haddock wrote:You seriously worry about Google? Data mining is certainly a 'thing'.
Personally I think the USA is basically 'on our side' which is why the guys down at Bude are tapping into the cables and passing info to our 'friends' (who under data law are not allowed to 'tap' US cuts without a court order).
Suspect US data security is much better than ours.
Meanwhile anyone on TicTok?
Google is just a laymans example. Meanwhile the bulk of UK GDP is driven by the transfer of information and content. It's very easy to visually focus on global manufacturing supply chains but not so much on global content. A no deal Brexit will cause massive legal challenges and cost to UK headquartered companies which this government have yet to acknowledge publicly. But what do I know, perhaps all this UK data sitting on Irish AWS servers is going to magically Brexitfy itself
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,925
Not sure why country where data is 'stored' makes any difference (unless unfriendly actor with access).
"Shall we go, you and I, while we can? Through the transitive nightfall of diamonds"
