howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
I don't disagree about what he said Keith, Germany did want the Syrians as most were seemingly skilled with shed loads of cash plus American Express cards. Seemed a good idea to use them to fill skills gaps and keep wages down, unfortunately on the long trek across Europe many dodgy characters slipped into the crowds and are now causing problems in Germany.
Having said all that Hungary together with Poland don't turn down the free money given to them.
Guest 745- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
howard mcsweeney wrote:Having said all that Hungary together with Poland don't turn down the free money given to them.
why would they ?? if we the fools keep sling it at them
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
we are fools to by not getting free money to, now we have chucked our divorse papers we will get jack tit again,.
John Buckley
- Registered: 6 Oct 2013
- Posts: 615
Reginald Barrington likes this
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Encouraging news for Brian. The bit in there that struck a chord was that the Remain side didn't put up as good an argument as they should have. My abiding memory is on the first day of the campaign the former CEO of Marks and Spencer said we should stay in as it keeps wages down!! They took him round the back and shot him soon after.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/remain-campaign-brexit-second-referendum-lord-malloch-brown-eu-rejoin-european-union-a8149616.htmlhoward mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,299
I think we will see the EU turn up the heat now. It is clear to me that their euthusiastic praise for Theresa May, and the total fudge on Ireland, was part of a plan designed only to keep Theresa May in post long enough for round two. Now that that objective has been achieved, I think you will see a very different beast.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Courtesy of the Telegraph.
Let battle commence! Over the next month or so, a true war of ideas will be fought across Europe over how best to accommodate Britain after Brexit while simultaneously revivifying the bloc’s own flagging fortunes. Because for all the bluster from Brussels, the 27 EU nations that remain after Britain’s departure in March 2019 are still a very long way from sorting out the basic conundrum thrown up by the UK’s vote to leave. Do not be distracted by how comprehensively the EU won the first round of the negotiations (which they did) because history will show that was the easy part; a mere trifle of housekeeping that cleared the decks for the real discussion to follow.
Winning a €45bn divorce settlement and solid terms for the 3.2m EU citizens in the UK does not change the reality that Brexit leaves a €13bn-a-year hole in the EU budget and the world’s fifth-largest economy (and Europe’s main financial centre) still on the EU’s doorstep. This is a divorce where both parties are condemned to live next door to each other, and do business with each other, in perpetuity. The reality is that whatever the eventual terms of the EU-UK trade deal, the UK and the City of London, is not going to go away. This is all too easily forgotten in the increasingly bitter exchanges that characterise these divorce proceedings. As in all divorces, there is fault on both sides: Barnier niggles, team Juncker leaks, but equally Johnson and Davis goad the EU with witless and self-defeating regularity.
But taking even a moderately long view, there is a serious danger now that in all the rising short-term frustration and mistrust, Germany and France are about to get Brexit seriously wrong. Britain is not Trump’s America, nor is it Kaczynski’s Poland or Orban’s Hungary - we are not rippling up climate change accords and international trade rules, nor are we assaulting the rule of law or establishing a kleptocracy in plain sight. It is the UK that has always faithfully implemented EU directives, often with gold plate; it has striven to green its energy mix, driven EU-wide liberalisation in services, lobbied for the completion of the digital single market and against tax dumping. None of this is changed by Brexit. Just as financial markets often over-react to bad news, there is now a risk of a political over-shoot from Brexit on the European side.
There are already clear signs of dissent from some EU members states - including large ones like Italy and liberal free-traders in the Nordic region - that the Franco-German line on Brexit risks causing unnecessary damage to both sides. Read between the lines of British ministerial pronouncements of late and it could be hardline Brexiteers who end up disappointed by the 'managed divergence' model, not the EU. Germany and France strongly disagree. Emmanuel Macron - a politician whose personal brand is build on bearding the populist tiger - has warned smaller EU states of the “prisoner’s dilemma”, where they put short-term interests over long-term stability.
German officials believe that dissenting states will be silenced when they understand that enforcing the EU’s ‘level playing field’ - i.e. stopping the UK from seeking regulatory advantage - they will fall into line. Europe should be careful what it wishes for. Britain has no wish to become ‘Singapore’ off the coast of Europe, it clearly wants to stay ‘aligned’ in many areas given what Philip Hammond calls the “extraordinary levels of interconnectedness” between the EU and UK. But the Franco-German approach, which is backed by the European Commission, risks precipitating just such an outcome if it is not tempered by the wise counsel of other member states.
Ross Miller likes this
Guest 1997- Registered: 3 Mar 2017
- Posts: 148
#1420. Whatever the leader writer of the Telegraph may think, the bottom line is that the answer will always end up as "we didn't ask you to leave".
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Can things get any worse? Some of those campaigning for a "hard Brexit" seem incapable of understanding anything around them and keep giving own goals away.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-hamper-british-food-products-eu-brussels-michel-barnier-marmite-pg-tips-hendricks-gin-a8152006.htmlhoward mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
may be seeing common sense after all.wants to correct the error of his ways.
Button
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,053
Or, to coin a phrase, seeking the oxygen of publicity. We had a referendum on the subject and it came, democratically, to a certain outcome. For sure people will continue to argue for the alternative outcome - and that is their democratic right also, in exactly the same way as it was for people who argued to leave ever since we joined.
(Not my real name.)
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
lets bring it on then.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
I wouldn't like to predict the result if there was one but what I feel certain of is that many people would vote differently to before. Many Remain voters have been thoroughly wee weed off by the arrogance of the EU negotiators who clearly want to hurt us whether it hurts the people or not.
Many Leave voters are staggered at the ineptitude of our negotiators and politicians in general and feel that they are leading us into an abyss and don't really care what effect it has on the people. It seems so long since we had a General Election or Referendum we must be due one.
Brian Dixon likes this
Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,053
But even ignoring the fact that the decision to leave was arrived at democratically - assuming you take the UK as a whole, another binary choice between leave/stay would simply let the argument run, whichever the majority (of those enfranchised and who exercise their vote) chose. In other words, I doubt that a referendum could cope with options of what "in" and "out" look like, or indeed mean.
(Not my real name.)
Weird Granny Slater
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 7 Jun 2017
- Posts: 3,064
'To induce one in/out referendum, Mr Farage, may be regarded as a misfortune; to induce two looks like carelessness.' Apologies to the memory of one of the many Irish geniuses.
'Pass the cow dung, my dropsy's killing me' - Heraclitus
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,874
This new referendum idea is a silly one but Farage has to raise his media profile somehow, this is his only way to get in the news again.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
why not take it up, bearing in mind he might lose this one. well according to a newspaper poll. remain wins by 10%.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
All this talk of a possible second Referendum gives the pundits licence to write more articles on what the public would do.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/14/how-and-why-britain-might-be-asked-to-vote-again-on-brexit
