Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
The Gay Marriage vote is a classic example of the political `whip`.
In Parliament it is `openly` used and in this case it is openly used to tell party members
``your career will not progress if you do not fall in line``
At County level it is also openly used but at District and Town Council level it is both open and
latently covert.The leader of a political party has the power to give his `friends` and those with
similar `objectives`........jobs and positions that carry extra payments to their yearly allowances.
On the other hand if you are not in line with the leader...you tow the line or are persona non grata
and an outsider......all without a `visible whip in operation . Locally some leaders and Cllrs deny
there is a whip as it is embarrassing for both.....Cllrs deny there is a `whip` because they do not
want to admit they are ``controlled``
Back to the Gay Marriage vote .....the Conservatives have a ``free vote``.....their whips are very active
with threats and promises........thus the need for more Independents in politics
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
the question i would ask is how many mp's would get elected without the party ticket, very few i suspect so maybe they should do as they are told by their leaders?
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
In 12 years as a Conservative member of DDC I was never 'whipped' - we did not have a whip either, I was never cajoled into supporting a particular line either. I don't think it has changed since then either.
You speak from experiencing how Labour do things. Something I remember clearly after the 1991 DDC elections, when a raft of very nasty types got elected under the Labour banner, was how long-standing members suddenly felt unable to speak to Conservative members, watching over their shoulder when they did so. A massive change for the worse.
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
# 2..............is that the way to run a Dance Hall ?
Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
I agree entirely with Reg, I'd love to see far more independents at all levels
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,915
I go with that to all the time labour/tories dont listen
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
how would independents finance their campaigns though?
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,915
I don't know who the nasty labour people were? Strange term, there were some that had strong opinions, wonder iif barryw meant they disagreed with him, so him classes them as nasty
on the question of the whip, we need to get real on this, a free vote is only free if allowed to vote without whips trying to sway things,
looking locally a good example of the tory whip was when scrutiny was set up all the conservative cllrs agreed on an item to go to the cabinet, and full council
when it got to full council the whip was in action and all the conservatives voted like lambs against there own scrutiny decision
so as not to upset there own party.
I believe in the scrutiny system but it has to be seen to be unbiased
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i seem to remember hearing about that, before my time but there was a suggestion that a few "militant tendency" types got their foot in the door of the local reds.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,915
barryw
I'm not a nasty i know that, and iv never heard in my 25 years anyone being stopped from talking from tories
in fact just before i joined the council tory and labour cllrs used to meet up for a beer after council meetings.
Now there were some lefty type became cllrs but didnt last long
just the same as you had some right wingers in your group (the present gay vote agood example) if you recall 2 brothers left through feeling unwelcome in your group(sorry not your group, i mean the tory group) and the guy made no secret of having a problem with them.
Funny cos i found them both to be hard working cllrs at the time, still say hello to them when i see them from time to time.
Like all parties left, right or whatever there are those die in the woods voters that will never change, i recall 2 incidents at polling stations over the years(there are far more)
incident 1 I was on polling stn and chatting to the 2 other parties polling stn geezers
my relief came who happened to be the labour organiser, i introduced the other 2 parties he said i have no
interest in them and got out his daily mirror. now, i have a little sympathy with the view, that you fight
these parties all the year round so why would you be buddies with them? but i always found it passed
the time away if your there for 3 hours or so.
incident 2; I asked a blue rinse lady about her conservative candidate she was supporting and spending her voluntary
time supporting, I found out she had no idea who he was, where he came from, whart he does, what he
beliues in, but she had voted tory all her life as had her parents.
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Keith - we did indeed, right up until 1991. That is my point. It changed from that point. When I see you I will give you the name of the person I referred to who was nervous about talking to Tories. Never a problem before that 1991 Labour intake.
I remember the 'two brothers', I remain in contact with one of them, I certainly don't remember the 'unwelcome' bit but that was after my day on DDC and knew them from the 'outside' so to speak though I knew them well before they were elected. Attitudes to them is not a matter of right wing or otherwise, I am right wing and have never had a problem with them. Nice blokes actually and I got on very well with them. There are bigots across the political divide.
Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
I never have been whipped at District or Town Council,I am friends with as many Tories as I am Labour in fact the Chairman of DDC Sue Nicholas have been friends for years. Never seen so much twaddle .
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
The two party`s both have pre-meetings to ``discuss`` agenda and ``decide``how to vote and to make sure the ``don`t knowers``
are informed how the group will be voting and not to make an ```embarrassing`` mistake.
In the Labour group meetings there is invariably different opinions so a vote is taken on how the group will vote.
The same happens in the tory meetings except there there are less differing opinion......they know it will be frowned on and
they will lose brownie points.
The conservatives had their meetings in the office next to the Chairman`s office and before my time it is ``alleged``to have been
``bugged``for a period and the the gossip was said to up hold this situation.
So # 3 and # 13 ......yes there is a lot of twaddle but it ain`t coming from this direction......
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Reg - The twaddle is all yours as always.
Bugged for a period!!! a comment right out of your posterior originating in your imagination. Dreamed up to substantiate your ridiculous comments about the Conservative Group meetings. You know nothing at all.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
Reg is talking total twaddle; he has no knowledge how our conservative meetings are run - certainly not with a whip.
He can only be talking about how Labour behave.
We've discussed this many times and Reg, you come up with the same old nonsense every time - why do you keep saying it ?
Roger
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
Batman and Robin still in Gotham ( denial ) City..........
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
That last time I got whipped I padded my trousers with a book.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
waste of time paying out all that money alex.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
Another example of party politics turning perfectly reasonable people, who would otherwise agree on most issues and work together for the good of the district, into enemies.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
