Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#21
If you want to act as a recruiting sergeant for the BNP all you have to do is restrict their freedoms.
There is a huge difference between what the ordinary members of the public feel about issues such as immigration and the politically correct nonsense so beloved by Labour politicians and it is from traditional Labour roots that BNP support is coming from. That is the real reason for the growth in the BNP, people can identify with them because of the p.c. suppression any real discussion of immigration and race. Political correctness has been their recruiting sergeant until now, by penalising them and restricting their right to express themselves you will draw even more support to them.
Even I might even be tempted to vote for them if they were persecuted by the political establishment, as a protest.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
#22
BAZ
Hate to say it but your wrong again!!!!
BNP hasn't come from labour issues, its come from the state of politics at this time
and hopefully it will gret better, but sadly we just go from election to election hoping to win govt/councils
when realy this is 1 subject all parties in Govt/councils should be uniting against.
freedom of speech is 1 thing, people being incited to to hurt others is quite another.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#23
where have the bnp encouraged or incited people to hurt others keith?
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#24
Correct howard, that is an allegation that is not substantiated and if true would bring about court proceedings. No-one would advocate allowing them to promote any kind of violence.
Keith - go 'oop north' and ask the BNP voters why they turned their back on their traditional support for Labour, I am certain you will find the answer is what I am saying.
#25
Nobody can complain at the "rise of the BNP". After all, it's just democracy in action. If everyone hates them, where do all their votes come from? If enough people vote them in, then we (as a collective nation) get what we deserve. Maybe the BNP are really showing us the dark side of democracy?
#26
It is proper democracy, and I have no time for those whinging politicians who bleat about it being a slap in the face for democracy - quite the reverse! I loathe the BNP but they have a right to exist and people have a right to vote for them - if we want to reverse that or reduce their attraction, we have to examine why they appear to be on the rise. It is our responsibility to respond, not theirs to retreat.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
#27
BERN/RICK/BARRYW
I agree with your comments, but as Rick says it is the general political climate that has made this all come about
We need to clean up politics, need to engage with properly people and allow voices to be heard.
MAjor changes if we are not to see the situation get worse and even more people stop voting.
#28
One thing that will certainly see the BNP shrink back to the shallow end of the pool is if we all (as a nation) abandon this crap politically-correct culture that chokes us all. Let us speak our minds again like our parents and grandparents used to. Let us complain about the noisy immigrants up the road if we have a complaint, without being called racist. Let us laugh at harmless jokes without publicly humiliating the individual who told it. Let us call a spade a spade, a dwarf a dwarf, and a thicko a thicko. Let us, without shame or regret, express ourselves and embrace our sense of national pride (two things we seem wholly incapable of these days) and we will see our social political sense level up again.
If any of you remember a while ago I made a big posting about why the UK is a crap place to live. The rise of the BNP fits in so perfectly with that. We had some debate over where the decline in our sense of self started, I believe it started in 1997 as Tony took the front door keys of No 10, others believe it was Thatcher and Reagan. But nobody - and I mean NOBODY - is doing anything to fix it. We're either told to shut up or accused of antisocial views (ie racism) if we have non-PC views or a desire to debate a tricky issue; we are constantly told we are the worst at everything; and many UK people are clearly feeling somewhat threatened by Islamic terrorism and yet feel powerless to even comment on the matter let alone do anything else.
Watching the BNP rise is simply no surprise. Quite often extreme politics rise in times of some form of crisis, and the BNP have a lot to play with at the moment. Financial crisis, terrorism, immigration, low self esteem among the native population, endless guilt every time we use a car or an electric light (carbon footprints - don't even get me started on this heap of bulldozer!) - you name it. We seem to be made to feel bad for just about everything these days and who but an extreme party can address such a state of mind?
I would hate to see the BNP take full power and doubt they ever will, but I also think the rise of the BNP does not represent a "racist Britain" as many foreign nationals are claiming. Rather, it represents a suppressed Britain that wants to get away from the stranglehold of PC, and wants to feel its views matter again.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#29
Well said Rick I am 100% in agreement.
#30
Rick, I cannot argue with your plea for a common sense approach to how we address people and express ourselve, but I would urge our society to also remember some of the reasons for the PC collective: we were a racist society. Black people were (and still are) beaten up, harrassed, hassled, refused jobs etc etc routinely, made fun of with impunity, laughed about to their faces. And not just Blacks: when my Dad, who came from Ireland when a teenager, arrived here he was faced with large (badly spelled and poorly written) signs in the windows of the B&Bs that said "No Blacks, No dogs, No Irish" - which kind of sums up the white UK attitude at the time. I would not want to see a return to that. Would you?
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
#31
BERN
iM AGAIN with you on this one, Rick makes many valid points and we do need to look at the PC stuff.
But in doing so I protect Paulb's right to remain lol(no irish)
but seriously we realy do need a cuture change, but one that will make sure we listen to everyones views, i wouldn't want us to go back to using offensive launguage that offends some, so it will need to all be considered.
If theres a problem we should be able to debate openly about it, but it needs to be done in a responsible way, not just thinking, well i aint offended
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#32
bern
you must have lived a sheltered life if you believe that minorities are all victims of the majority.
#33
Bern, I'm not suggesting we give free vent to racism - I am suggesting that we simply stop fighting racism by blanket-banning all types of debate and expression and stop accusing anyone with an opinion of being racist if that opinion doesn't fit into populist PC agendas.
#34
Howard - I don't! But there is more risk for some than for others and some are more vulnerable than others for no other reason than their colour, race or creed. There are, in truth, some minorities who are able to grasp the momentum of public opinion or the collective lack of appetite for the challenge and abuse the majorities!
But I do agree with Rick that some sense has to be injected into the debate - I have known several black people who were, frankly, pants at their job but achieved promotion because firstly people were scared to object and secondly they were in the right place at the right time to capitalise on the PC agenda. That may sound racist, but I am confident it isn't because I am not!!! (And I know some white people have similar "good luck" for simliar PC reasons!!!) But sadly even a lily-livered, left-leaning, pinko anti-capitalist like me is scared of raising the issue because of the fallout. A while back I sacked someone who was not even just bad at their job but was honestly a liability. He happened to be asian. Yes, I was taken to an ET, but we nailed it, and had evidence of his uselessness. I am absolutely clear that my actions were rooted in his poor performance and I am actually rather glad I had the b**ls to take it head on!!! But it isn't easy, so I am not an idiot about it. but it does matter that we police our attitudes and ensure that we are, in reality, pursuing an anti-racist agenda, for all the right reasons.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
#35
WELL SAID BERNE
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
#36
here is another slant to the argument,they are rasist because we have been brain washed into thinking that way.
ps,im not a rasist or support the bnp in any way at all.
#37
No, Brian, they are actually racist..................
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
#38
proberly down to conditshaning.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
#39
think it has all been said
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
#40
I think the following quote should always be borne in mind when we talk about these types of things:
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
As BarryW has said if we ban the BNP, where do we stop?
Another quote that is worth remembering when we start to talk of arbitrarily banning groups or organisations is this:
"First they came for the Communists but I was not a Communist so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists but I was not one of them, so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Jews but I was not Jewish so I did not speak out. And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me."
Martin Niemoeller
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi