Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
10 November 2009
21:0832800Barry, you are well out of order on this one and not for the first time,you now have your own site,if you carry on like this,please keep your own feelings on it .The P.M done the right thing by writing to all the families not just one saying how sorry and sad he was,and we all feel the same.
This is the first time this has been done by any P.M.
This was not done when the Falklands war was on.
Well said on your last posting Keith.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
10 November 2009
22:3432803You are totally wrong Vic/Harry - Mrs T did handwritten letters to everyone who lost someone in the Falklands War, every one of them well presented, correctly spelt and punctuated, she considered it important and took a lot of trouble over them and as a result they are treasured by those who received them. Civil Servants have told people that she was crying while writing them. That is a matter of public record.
Remember, it is the family who had taken great exception to Brown's lapsidasical attitude.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
10 November 2009
22:4332805lapsidasical barry?
has gordon been teaching you english grammar?
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
10 November 2009
23:2832807I am sorry if I got it wrong over the Falklands ,but still you are wrong in the way you have wrote about Mr Brown,and just the way you have put Brown not even Mr Brown shows us all the kind of person you are.Mr Brown is at this time the P.M. of the U.K. and even you must see that no other P.M. FROM THE 1950s have had four years like he has it is not only the war,but the run on the finances of the U.K. and the world, I do not know if he got some of it wrong,but what I do know that he has not walked away from any of it, alot of it was not of his making. I do think he was the best man for the job and still think he is the only one who can turn it around and slowy that is just what is happing.
Guest 667- Registered: 6 Apr 2008
- Posts: 919
11 November 2009
08:1432809If I am wrong about Mrs. T then I also apologise but it still does not get away from the fact that an act of compassion (written badly or not) should not in my opinion have become a political points scoring exercise and more out of respect to the young man who was killed in action.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
11 November 2009
08:2032811harry,
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
11 November 2009
09:1532818Gordon Browns public relations image has improved considerably since this 'badly written letter' episode began. Initially this story attracted negative publicity but now I see that many many people are now seeing that Gordon was the victim of a mugging on this. His apologies yesterday were very sincere and very good and it made it look more and more as this whole episode should not have happened at all.
I would not be surprised if his figures in the polls would not improve on account of it.
So The Suns plan, which was a bit dastardly lets be honest, may well have backfired in political terms. This whole Mrs Janes episode has left a bad feeling. The woman herself had a very gentle interview with Julie Etchinghill of ITV but one with a harder edge from Newsnight where she was asked slightly harder questions by Jeremy Paxman.
Were you aware your son was in fact picked up by a helicopter after his in juries?
"I never said he wasnt" came the answer
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
11 November 2009
10:1332821i was about to say the same about the PM, the general feeling is that the man was genuine and like the rest of us is prone to errors.
proof reading would have been extremely callous, and taken away the rreason for writing the letter in the first place.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
11 November 2009
10:5032823The problem, howard, that Brown is prone to a lot more errors because of his personality traits in a very real sense, so much that he himself has become a political issue.
Give you a few examples of his erros and misjudgements:
The sale of gold. It is a fact that gold was at an all time low when he announced to the world that he was going to sell half our reserves. The markets reacted in the way they do naturally and gold fell further as a result, so when it was sold even less money was obtained for it. Since the sale the price of gold has steadily risen and now it is at an all time high. Gordon Brown was advised against this action by his Treasury advisers and he chose to ignore them. Any market trader in Portabello will tell you Brown was wrong and that you should not announce your intention, it does not take a genius, they would also tell you to buy at a low price and sell on a high, the opposite to what brown decided.]
Next - he changed the banking regulation from one of tight regulation with a clear line of responsibility to the Bank of England to one where there was a tri-partied system with not clear responsibility and a 'light touch' regulation. The result of this has been the adoption of questionable banking practices over the last 12 years and the participation in America's Clinton inspired lending bubble, all with disasterous consequences for the bank and the taxpayer.
Then he gave the Bank of England control over interest rates with a clear inflation brief. The problem was that the 'brief' was wrong and excluded any consideration of the level of credit in the economy. We therefore had interest rates set without reference to the credit markets and the result, a huge housing and credit card bubble that has now burst. It is this combined with the regulation change that has so wrecked our domestic banking.
I will not list the many errors he made, against advice, to private pensions. The result of a whole series of bad policy has been the near destruction of pension savings in the UK. Final salary occupational pensions are now as rare as rocking horse poo and personal pensions are no really being sold much any more to those who need them most.
Then there is public spending and borrowing. Initially he gained a reputation for prudence in the period when he had to keep to his manifesto pledge to stick to Ken Clarke's fiscal plan. As soon as that pledge expired he set about an unprecedented borrowing and spending binge. He increased borrowing, both on and off balance sheet, during the growth period when Governments should be repaying debt. he actually said that he had banned 'boom and bust' and I do think he believed what he said and that is why he kept on borrowing. No-one else believed him of course, the economy always goes in cycles of growth and recession, it is a fact of life whatever Governments do. So when the economy starts to slow down, at a point when Government borrowing should be allowed to rise, the UK was already borrowing far more than is healthy. We are now facing a massive problem with, even at low interest rates, the amount spent on interest by the Government is more than is spent on education. It is getting worse every day.
Gordon Brown said that the Uk 'is better prepared for the recession than any other major nation'. So why is it we were first into the recession, that it is deeper than other major nations and we will emerge from it after other 'major nations'.
What about his many 'slips of the tongue' - I saved the world, 0% growth, and so on....
There is a lot more about his period in public office that demonstrates his lack of competence, to 10% tax band fiasco for instance, but I think I have got the message accross....
OK , I will give him credit and praise him for one thing - he did not take us into the Euro. yes even Gordon Brown got one thing right in his 12/13 year in office.
he will go down in history as the worse Chancellor and PM ever.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
11 November 2009
17:4032835barryw,do allways have to make a moutain out of a molehill on labour issues.
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,698
11 November 2009
23:2732866Barry a lot of cheap shots at all those who don't share your world view as well as a couple against Brown in there as usual.
You also put out a whole lot of guff about polls; if they were the opposite way round you would be the first to tell us that they have significant margins of error etc etc. The only damn poll that counts is the one that we will all vote in next year, all the rest are navel gazing of the most self indulgent kind.
The reality is that there will always be opposing views on not only what constitutes the health and wealth of the nation but also the best ways to deliver it now and in the long term. Ignoring the extremes of both left and right we will always have some sort of Social Democratic party to the left of centre, a centrist Liberal type party and a right of centre party such as the current Conservatives, it is verging on the delusional to think otherwise. Socialism in main stream British politics was killed off by Blair a long time ago and replaced with a weird mix of social democratic and christian democratic thoughts and ideas which frankly goes some way to explaining the contradictory nature of so much of the NuLab output. The Labour Party needs to re-invent itself as a proper left of centre Social Democrat party losing a large chunk of the centralising control freakery along the way or it will spend a long time embroiled in internecine warfare, recrimination and back stabbing
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
12 November 2009
09:2932876Brian - molehills that culuminatively, over 12 years, created an economic disaster for the UK. The compounding effect of poor economic policy over 12 years is what caused us to be first into a recession and will be last out. My fingers are crossed that we dont get that second dip, if we dont then it will only be by the skin of our teeth, the recovery will be long and slow. Then we get to the hangover from this binge of spend and borrowing - that is going to be very painful whoever is in power.
Ross - This thread is all about Gordon Brown, he, himself is a political issue. In the absense of real polls the polling evidence is what we all have to go on. When we look at previous elections and compare them to the polls rarely are they out a great deal, certainly they have been steadily improving in accuracy over the years as methodoligy has improved. I do have a go at those who ignore the evidence around them and make assertions that are a long way for the reality of the situation.
Of course there will always be opposing views, that what makes life interesting. The fact is that Gordon Brown is personally responsible for the actions that have created the economic mess we are in. OK maybe he meant well but good intentions are not enough. He made his judgements over 10 years as Chancellor and got the vast majority, certainly of the important ones, wrong and the evidence for that is the economic mess we have. And then I am speaking relative to other major countries, because yes, we have had a world recession with most of the rest of the world having resumed a growth phase, but not us... Note that he frequently ignored his advisers, that means he cannot blame others for his misjudgements.
As for the Labour Party. They have been an unmitigated disaster to the economy of this country in every period of Government they have had. They do not deserve to maintain their place as the main left of centre opposition in the UK. As a Tory I would like that centre to be moved significantly to the right but I expect that will not be the case....
12 November 2009
09:5032879While I respect your views and your right to hold them - completely - I would question anyone who felt any party had the answers to our ills. All political parties are, in the end, pursuing one goal - power. The power that is so attractive to them is, generally, not attractive for altruistic reasons. Therefore we, the unwashed masses, need to have in place some safeguards and safety nets that protect our interests and those of our neighbours, with whom we may disagree. One way to diminish "our" ability to do this is to reduce real education and limit access. That, in effect, is what tuition fees do.
Many of the "mickey mouse" degrees currently taken up are a sop to the masses: produce a degree and feel satisfied. But the degree earned, while valid to a point and useful to a point, has not been "educational" in the real sense. when I was being educated (a traditional "classics" education) it was an opportunity to learn about learning as much as about subjects - an opportunity to expand ones horizons and think about things in na different way. My son is experiencing a similar education in an academic arena. Many people do not have that opportunity. Thuis is the result of political manipulation and we are diminished because of it. I feel strongly about this!! And it doesn't matter a jot or tittle which Party did it - thay are all colluding with it.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
12 November 2009
18:5232925interesting post bern, i like that bit about the "mickey mouse" degrees.
everyone knows, but the universities get funding so they will just carry on with them.
my favourite was the one on "soaps", i would have failed because both elsie tanner and ena sharples have left coronation street.
someone told me, so i would imagine it to be true.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
12 November 2009
20:2232938i see that dc and g osborne are rehersing there new jobs as as bungle and zippy,thats worth an a star for your open uni degree howard.
