Guest 672- Registered: 3 Jun 2008
- Posts: 2,119
23 November 2009
12:2833732Counter terrorism is pretty high grade stuff.
Not at all Boss man, even you can do it.
Ears, eyes and a bit of common sense can bring the biggest of cells down.
The high grade stuff goes on after they have been identified.
And then of course what action to take.
grass grows by the inches but dies by the feet.
Guest 686- Registered: 5 May 2009
- Posts: 556
23 November 2009
15:0733738One comment Keith made about the Folkstone PCSOs, that it is they whom the public tend to contact first. I can't say I'm surprised at that in the slightest. PCSOs are local, with a local contact number and tend to react fairly swiftly. The police, however, can only be contact via a central switchboard (especially after hours) in Maidstone and half the time the operator hasn't a clue where an incident is taking place. If the police attend at all it is probably hours later and far too late to do any good - unless you mention certain key words such "gun" in which case the armed response unit arrives within minutes.
There is no way that a private security firm can either replace or enhance the work that the PCSOs do. What does need to happen is a return of confidence in the existing system; for people to be able to report crime as it is occuring in the expectation that action will be taken immediately and not the following day, maybe!
Phil West
If at first you don't succeed, use a BIGGER hammer!!
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
23 November 2009
18:0733751phil
quality reply that one, you have to give location details repeatedly.
i had sussed out the one about the possibility of a weapon, works like a dream, so i am told!!!!
Guest 686- Registered: 5 May 2009
- Posts: 556
23 November 2009
18:4433755Howard: Some while ago while I was parking my truck at the top of Coombe Valley four youths appeared out of nowhere and started shooting at the truck with what looked remarkably like the standard 9mm service pistol. It was fairly obvious though that they were actually BB replicas or I wouldn't be here to mention it as a couple of shots hit the windscreen. A 9mm round would have gone straight through, through me and out the other side!
I immediately called 999 and was put through to Maidstone where I explained what was happening and where. After having had to spell out the road name for the second time I was told that someone would be sent round in an hour or two. I began to explain that within a few minutes there would be nobody in the truck and that I was going home but by that time two unmarked cars, with blue lights going roared up the road and scattered the two boys and two girls to the four winds. I gather they were eventually tracked down, had their "toys" confiscated and given a serious talking to.
I gather that the firearms boys actually monitor calls into the call center, though quite how that works I've no idea. It would not be a very good idea to cry wolf though in the hope of getting an immediate response as you would probably land yourself in a great deal of trouble.
Phil West
If at first you don't succeed, use a BIGGER hammer!!
23 November 2009
19:5333772Phil - you make my point!! It is the job of the police to be local, to be out and about and have eyes and ears around - that relationship management thing IS policing at a local level.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
23 November 2009
21:4633783A few more observations,
As PCSO's they are likely to be the first on the scene in the event of counter terrorism as they walk the beat every day,
I think as i have said in earl;ier postings, until or if people find out more maybe even have a day out with them they would find out just how much the community values them, and respects them.
Guest 673- Registered: 16 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,388
26 November 2009
04:3033909I spent last thursday in court listening to a case being brought against my sister and nephew, both charged with violent disorder, resisting arrest, and assaulting policemen.
What happened to them is so unfair, and such an incredible waste of the extraordinary police resources employed, that it makes my blood boil. I cannot go into specific details of location and names as the case is still ongoing. However, the local newspaper has taken up the cudgels and will pursue the matter further when sentencing is complete. Complaints against two police officers are under investigation and a third has been given what a police spokesman described as "words of advice."
There had been an all-day street party in the town which had gone off very well. My sister was in the local club as it was closing just before midnight, with everybody saying their goodbyes and leaving. Her husband died eighteen months ago and my seventeen year old nephew had arrived to walk her home and was leaning against a table near the bar with his friend, looking at his mobile phone screen. Neither was drinking, nor indeed allowed to be served had they wanted.
A woman driving a car flagged down a patrol car and said that some youths had thrown stones at her as she passed the club. The patrol car went to the club and the crew, consisting of a police constable and a special constable, entered the club after finding that whoever had been throwing stones was no longer outside. They decided to hasten the departure of the remaining customers, who were still drifting happily towards the exit.
What happened next is incredible. I have copies of all the witness statements from the customers in the pub and the police officers and, crucially, a copy of the CCTV recording from the camera looking towards the bar from the exit. The police officers made their statements before seeing the CCTV recording and a lot of what they have put is, sadly, pure invention. Were it not for the CCTV then their word would have been accepted without question and the actions of my sister and nephew attributed to late night intoxication.
To cut a long story short, the Special Constable raced after my nephew as he was starting to follow his mother out of the club and tapped him on the shoulder. He turned around and exchanged a few words. He also put his hands behind him and pulled up his trousers. He then turned away and resumed his passage to the exit. The Police Constable then stood in his way and grabbed him by both shoulders. His statement says that this is because my nephew had "clenched his fists" behind him as though preparing to hit the Special Constable and he intervened because he feared for his safety. This is transparently not the case as my nephew had pulled up his trousers and turned away. There is reason to think that this was a set up because my nephew is not afraid to speak his mind and had had words with a PCSO earlier in the day during the street party.
By this time, there were six policemen in the club and they all descended on my nephew and threw him to the floor. My sister came racing back from where she had been assisting an eighty year old man out of the exit and flung herself into the mass of writhing bodies. She is a tiny five foot nothing eight stone moppet. Two of them threw her backwards and forwards across a table. They were then manhandled out of the club with all the remaining customers vociferously protesting at what was going on, entirely verbally. Nobody could believe what was happening. It had been a peaceful happy end to a lovely community day and suddenly the police were going berserk and violently arresting two popular customers who were on their way quietly out of the club.
Yet more backup had been called. The scene outside was extraordinary with lines of police cars, dog handlers and a police helicopter! The local paper asked for what resources were deployed, under the Freedom of Information legislation. It took five months for the police to respond. This is what it states:
37 officers in total plus 1 civilian pilot, broken down as one inspector, three sergeants, three foot patrol constables, twentyfour mobile patrol constables, two armed response officers, two dog handlers constables, two helicopter crew plus pilot. Vehicles deployed were thirteen general patrol vehicles, one armed response unit (not on an armed deployment), two dog units and one helicopter.
There were also two ambulances as the police somehow knocked a sixtythree year old woman over in the road, and the eighty year old man my sister had been helping also fell over and had to be assisted.
All this to arrest one seventeen year old lad and his diminutive mother, neither of whom had done anything wrong and were on their way home!
My sister was fined over a thousand pounds and given two years probation and a police record. The single young female magistrate presiding told her sternly that she had got off lightly. My nephews sentence has been adjourned until next month for reports but the three magistrates presiding when he attended for sentencing said it will probably only be community service.
This all seems to stem from the actions of one dodgy policeman who has a very bad reputation locally. I have been told that he spent most of last year on suspension and has now been transferred to a small town elsewhere in the county.
I wonder if it is possible that dressing them all up as last hero actionmen with flak jackets and assorted weaponry has a bearing on their behaviour. Do they get bored with sitting in their Panda cars all night with nothing happening and relish the opportunity to throw their weight around and use up some of their pent-up physical energy and aggression when the opportunity presents itself or can be manufactured to do so?
This incident must call into question whether the police are as under-resourced as they endlessly claim to be. All that this lot lacked were some flame throwers and a main battle tank.
I feel very aggrieved at the injustice that has been perpetrated on my sister and nephew. The personnel concerned have done a disservice to their calling and have alienated a substantial section of the law abiding community. The matter will not rest here and both myself and the local press will be pursuing the matter once my nephew has been sentenced. I have sent copious information to the journalist who attended court, and who wrote an excoriating front page article detailing the resources deployed as reluctantly disclosed by the police, and he assures me that he intends to ask further questions about this night when court proceedings are over.
26 November 2009
08:0133910Ed - I am sorry for the experiences your family have endured. Good luck with your case. That young man will have to carry this with him now all his life on his record - there are too many of these injustices, too much power resting on shoulders too weak and dense to carry it. You will, I am sure, find plenty of moral support, mine amongst it. It is refreshing to see the press in the right corner for a change.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
26 November 2009
08:5633919Wow, that's really scary Ed. - but thanks for the report.
I know that not all the Police are perfect and they do work under very difficult conditions sometimes, but this beggers belief.
Roger
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
26 November 2009
09:1733920Ed
I assume the Police Complaints Commission avenue has been explored.
This happens all to often and is in my opinion down to a myriad of reasons:
the lowering of educational standards required to enter the police service,
insufficient training and
copppers watching too many TV programmmes ,to name but a few.
This comes in the same week as a 'cowardly' copper was sentenced to life imprisonment for killing his girlfriend and 4 innocent people were killed by a speeding police panda.
I regret to say and it might come as a shock to many forumites but the police often tend to 'lie' in order to secure a conviction or to justify their actions.
The days of yore are long since gone and the general public are viewed as 'scum' by the lower than average intelligent police officer and we,the public, get in the way of many police living out their Starsky & Crutch fanatasies.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
26 November 2009
09:4933923All too true and sad, Marek.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
26 November 2009
18:5233940this will sound simplistic but the police are made up of all different types like most jobs are.
there will always be a few bad apples in the barrel.
whenever i hear "aren't our policeman/doctors/nurses/soldiers/ add any others here wonderful", i just cringe.
wherever there are humans then human failings will be present.
26 November 2009
19:2033942Absolutely, Howard, And again, there is often a back story. But the incident Ed relates sounds straightforward enough! Yes, any large organisation will throw up some bad apples.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
26 November 2009
19:3133945Bern & Howard
I agree but incidents like the above appear to happen more frequently these days than in the past.
I have also experienced officers of good standing and 12 years service lying in court and deliberately misleading the jury in order to secure a conviction. There are not 2 sets of rules one for us plebs and another set for the Police.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
26 November 2009
19:4333946Again, true. Perhaps we are just more able to see it now? Corruption is difficult to remove when it is so embedded and part of the culture of an organisation.
Guest 673- Registered: 16 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,388
28 November 2009
01:4834018Thanks for the comments. Unfortunately my sister has now also lost her job over this. The local paper published a photo of her and my nephew outside the court with the headline "Mother assaults police officers." Apparently the article which followed was broadly sympathetic but the damage was done. We did ask the journalist involved not to publish the photo but he said it was up to the editor and out of his hands.
The shop which she works in caters for the children of the wealthy clientele in the neighbourhood. The husband and wife who own it were aware that some of the clients would object to being served by a convicted criminal with her face in the newspaper. The wife went round to her home this morning, very upset, and asked her to tender her resignation. They have been very good to her in the past, for example closing the shop to attend the funeral when her husband died, and will be giving her a months wages in lieu and a good reference. She does not want to cause them any embarrassment and will have to go. Poor little devil, it is one thing after another.
Guest 641- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 2,335
28 November 2009
10:2634029Thats terrible news about your sister Ed, I wouldn't put any blame on the journalist though, he was only doing his job.
I'm shocked that your sisters employer asked her to tender her resignation, how long has she worked at the business?
28 November 2009
13:1234032Don't get me started about journos. The level of affected innocence when this kind of thing comes up is nauseating. There is more to journalism than just printing words, and the responsibilities inherent in presenting alleged "facts" to the public are serious. The repercussions of distorted reports, mistakes and errors of facts being reprinted verbatim as genuine fact, and as we all know, stats and pictures can tell as many lies as we like depending on context. And mud sticks same as sh1t.
Guest 673- Registered: 16 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,388
28 November 2009
17:3734035She had worked in the shop for two or three years. Only part time so not the end of the world, although she is very upset. One light of hope at the end of the tunnel is that she was hoping to get a job as housekeeper at the area hospital and had applied a long time ago. She finally received an invitation to an interview in December. This arrived during the trial!
She is now hoping that they must have done a police check before inviting her for an interview and will not do another one showing that she is now deemed to be a master criminal with links to the Kray Brothers and Al Qaeda! She is presumably now stuffed for any other job that requires a police check or has a box on the application form asking if you have a criminal record.
The journalist asked her if she would mind him taking a photo when they were outside the court. She asked him not to as she feared that she that might lose her job if her employers saw it, correctly as it transpires. He said that he had to take one anyway, whether she liked it or not, and that is what happened.
Sadly her photo was printed but, needless to say, not a photo of the policeman who caused all the trouble in the first place and was responsible for the great army of patrol cars, dog handlers and helicopter which congregated. I wonder if he gets a kick out of this sort of thing, like the occasional fireman who starts fires for the thrill of taking part in fighting them.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
28 November 2009
19:2834040BERN
Think im with you on thisone,
thats why i dont buy express anymore
nor do many other locals