Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 6,022
30 September 2009
08:5329531I was very interested in hearing Gordon Browns proposal to house young single mothers in a hostel .What a mavellous idea .For far too long young girls have been able to access a Council waiting list and aquire a flat to start with then moving slowly into bigger accomodation .I have seen how the system works.Unfortunately Councils have a duty to house homeless youngesters and so often the parents do not accept responsibility and demand .Their Daughter has rights dont you know You puffed up ****council worker or councillor .I was on the bus yesterday overheard a girl gloating on the fact the council had given her a flat .
I have never denied that some people will never rise to great heights and lack ambition but look around Dover and see how many young girls have babies
.I watched yesterday children getting on the bus there was the usual stuffing them selves with sweets mums on mobiles and then i spotted a little girl reading her school book .NOw that little girl will go far and not settle for a hoard of children before she is eligble to vote .Ride on a bus and see life .
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
30 September 2009
09:1529533Hold on Sue - this was announced in 1998 and is not a new announcement. I understand that there are already c. 8000 girls in such places and the Brown announcement, though spun and presented as new, is really about opening up 2,000 more places.
Like so much in that speech, there is no money to pay for it so it is just hogwash to impress those in the conference hall.
Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
30 September 2009
09:2429535My daughter is 4 months pregnant,my first grandchild,she went to the Council in June as she lives with 2 girls to try and find somewhere to live.She has now found somewhere but the Council said that she would not get any money as she lost her job as well for 8-10 weeks.Well we are in October tomorrow and she hasn't recieved any money 14 weeks later.
Now as a Councillor I could make a pest of myself and call the Top man and ask him why,yes I have an intrest but she is also moving into my ward in Tower Hamlets,but I have had this feeling that sometimes when Cllrs get involved things are put to the back of the que.Or is it we (The Council) are telling porkies or is it that the staff has been cut back so far that they cannot cope.
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!
Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 6,022
30 September 2009
09:3129536In answer to Barry maybe its not a new idea but it hasnt reached Dover yet and we have some of the worst wards in deprivation .John are you on about not getting benefit or housing ??
The benefit section are overstretched and we have a very high level of people in receipt of benefits .
Housing well with an ever decreasing council stock some people wait years and why should young girls jump the que ?
In years gone by they had to live with their parents .That made them think twice before getting pregant again .Theses days there is so much advice for young people .Not a case of crossing your legs anymore .
Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
30 September 2009
09:4029538Yes Sue I am on about Housing benefit,my daughter is 22 and lost a baby 5 mths ago,I know the housing benefit office is streched because of the economic problems but I also know that they (THE Council) have reduced the staff that they couldn't cope if things were normal.
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!
Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 6,022
30 September 2009
09:4629541Go to the the top man John face to face .A very decent chap who has to work with an understaffed section .You should have heard the casbinet members giving him a grilling the other day .I felt so soirry for him as he was trying to say give me more staff and you will get better results .Too much paper work flying around John .I recall the days when you had several agenda items on one page
Too many presentations telling everyone how to do the job and not enough praise for those who do a good job .
Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 6,022
30 September 2009
09:4829544Watch the huffing and puffing tonight full of self importance .Some of tonights questions are good but there will be no debate .I never minded that as I always tried to stand my ground
I will huff off now as i appear to be in a huff ?.
30 September 2009
11:1229550Lovely demonstration of prejudice and snobbery there, Sue - nice one. In fact I agree that our laissez faire attitude has not done young people any favours, but to talk about them is such degrading terms is hardly a good example to set, either about manners or about attitudes. The sentiments expressed are the kind that allowed young people to end up in workhouses or the dreadful Convents of Ireland. How kind or caring was that? I also agree that, if a girl is not yet mature enough to have babies she should not do the thing that causes the babies, and if she does, she should take responsibility for the consequences. Ditto the boys. Nevertheless, stuff happens, and we can certainly manage things better without descending into caricature and verbal abuse, and without condoning any possible irresponsibility.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
30 September 2009
11:1929551i like the idea of the workhouse idea from young gordon,isnt one soon to be vacant up coombe vally road soon.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
1 October 2009
06:5229577I do agree that many young girls sole ambition is to get pregnant, then get a Council flat, more babies (doesn't matter who the father is), then work up to a house.
Let's be honest you can see them pushing prams around Town, now in pairs (of young mums), smoking, eating crisps, rolls, any kind of food really, rabbiting away on mobile phones etc. etc.
Sadly, many of these girls are like this because they have virtually dropped out; no ambition, very little education, very little prospects of finding a job - if they ever wanted to and their children will grow up thinking this is normal - and it is for them.
I don't know what the answer is, but it can't be good for them, their children, society as a whole and the cost of all this housing and benefit is astronomical now and if nothing is done, will grow even worse.
This isn't a nasty right-wing viewpoint, it's a fact of life - sadly.
Roger
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
1 October 2009
08:1929584I wouldn't want to tar all young mothers with the same brush however what has become noticeable whilst living on Jersey is that the mothers collecting the kids from my daughters school and the nearby nursery appear to be just a little bit older than those I saw in Dover.
There is very limited social housing over here so most kids are at home and are normally working.You are unable to claim unemployment benefit unless you have previously been in full time employment for the previous 5 years or so. Having a child without financial means to support and accommodate it is just not feasible. Hence mothers are waiting a wee bit longer when they are in a secure relationship and have the funds available before embarking on such a full time commitment.
Rightly or wrongly it works,the kids look cared for,the mothers arrive at the school smartly dressed and the kids appear to be disciplined. I am all for the state lending a helping hand and insuring a childs future but it would appear that there are youngsters who use and take advantage of this act of kindness by having a child as a way of escaping their responsibilities and securing employment.
ps My daughter said "Daddy there are no fat kids at this school,why's that?" Her words not mine and I don't have an answer.
Sorry for the un PC terminology kids often 'say what they see' as Roy Walker would often say on Catchphrase.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
1 October 2009
09:2729590Marek, would you apologise if you had used inpenetrable 'pc terminology'? Never apologise for using plain simple and straightforward English.
Guest 662- Registered: 18 Mar 2008
- Posts: 325
1 October 2009
09:3529591Whilst I agree that we do have a certain amount of single mothers here in Dover, we should remember that there are those that may have fallen pregnant at an early age and then strived to better themselves and build a better life for their children.
I know of several single mothers in the Dover area who may have been irresponsible in getting pregnant in the first place but have shown a great deal of resilience in getting out to work and providing for their child themselves.
I am dismayed that certain people are only able to see the worst as usual!
Dover has always had this problem, I myself was a result of a teenage pregnancy, thank fully my Father came back and married my Mother (He was at Old Park Barracks) and I think I turned out ok!!
Lets be fair, some of these women have never known any better, they have been raised into this mentality and dont know any better but I bet every one of them would want more for their children.
Michelle
Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 6,022
1 October 2009
09:5029593Dont we all Sheli.Mine and Rogers posts are not meant to be condescending .The truth always hurt ,and I make no apologies. I see so many young girls in Dover with babies and I feel very strongly that if they were not given so much help they might think twice before having a child .Years ago a child out of wedlock was brought up quite often with the Grandmother taken the child on as her own .Overcrowded homes with little money .last night at the Council meeting it was stated that for every family in todays Britain we have a debt of £25,000,thats a percentage of the National debt .
When people realise that someone out there has to pay for hand outs then
my words are not condescending but the truth real truth .
Guest 662- Registered: 18 Mar 2008
- Posts: 325
1 October 2009
10:3329595They may well be the truth Sue, however I dont think this problem is as serious as the hand outs we give to immigrants at the expense of our own!
What incentive is there for young people to find a way out when they see our affordable housing being filled with immigrants who are receiving hand outs left right and centre, whilst swanning through our town swathed in Gold and pushing designer pushchairs!
Sheli.
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
1 October 2009
13:0229597My word, this is starting to read like a column from the Daily Mail.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
1 October 2009
14:3029601Good paper that DT.....though I prefer the Times on Sundays....
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,698
1 October 2009
17:4729616Sheli are you sure that they are on benefits?
Can you prove it?
If you believe they are defrauding the system there are phone lines you can report them on.
Have you reported your concerns?
Or is all this just so much unsubstantiated rumour, supposition and hearsay?
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
1 October 2009
19:12296202 October 2009
07:1329637Sue - you make no apologies and reckon to be reflecting the truth. That's a dangerous assertion: your truth is very different to mine and takes no account of the variables, as Sheli manages to do. And whether you like it or not, and whether it is your truth or not, it is condescending and patronising. More importantly, simply berating people and attempting to force our own standards onto others will never work and will not achieve anything. If you and I want to achieve anything - and I assume what we want to achieve is fewer teenage pregnancies and fewer dependant youngsters - we need to look at the current moods and standards and how to address them, not our own standards or previous generations standards.
