howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Post 487 is courtesy of the Telegraph.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,796
I have replied Keith, only just seen it.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Courtesy of the Telegraph.
Britain will be bound by European human rights laws for another five years, with the Conservatives expected to abandon a pledge to withdraw the UK from the ECHR.
Theresa May is expected to make no mention in the Tory election manifesto of pulling out of the European Convention on Human Rights.
Mrs May, who served as home secretary from 2010 to 2016, said last year she wanted to quit the ECHR, which for a time frustrated her plans to extradite the hate preacher Abu Qatada.
She was expected to write the commitment into the Conservative manifesto meaning that Britain would be committed to withdrawing by the end of the next parliament, in 2022.
It means that Britain is now likely to be bound by European human rights laws for at least another five years.
Tony Blair’s Labour Government wrote the legislation into British law in 1999 in the Human Rights Act.
Tory Eurosceptics have bitterly criticised the law because it gave judges in Strasbourg the ability to rule in Britain on issues such as a right to privacy and family life.
Mrs May’s predecessor David Cameron had pledged to replace the Human Rights Act with a British Bill of Rights, but remain a signatory to the ECHR.
Last year Mrs May went further, saying the ECHR “can bind the hands of Parliament, adds nothing to our prosperity, makes us less secure by preventing the deportation of dangerous foreign nationals, and does nothing to change the attitudes of governments like Russia’s when it comes to human rights”.
It later emerged that she backed plans to “lift and shift” human rights enshrined in the European Convention and write them into UK law.
The party’s manifesto – which is due to be published in the week starting May 8 – was “locked” in terms of new ideas by aides to Mrs May at 10pm on Tuesday this week.
One senior minister said: “We have so much on our plate that we just don’t have enough time to do this. We have enough to do with Brexit let alone the ECHR.”
A Cabinet minister said he feared trying to withdraw from the ECHR would “screw up” negotiations with the European Union when Britain is trying to appear positive about the EU as the UK leaves.
A second Cabinet minister questioned why Mrs May would risk include the commitment when she wanted a clear five years to ensure a smooth Brexit.
But another party source said the situation was “fluid at the moment, different people have different views on it” and that no final decisions had been taken.
Iain Duncan Smith, a Eurosceptic former Cabinet minister, said the news that the commitment might not be in the manifesto was “disappointing” but he understood Mrs May’s thinking.
He said: “We have such a lot on our plates with the exit from the European Union. I would not be at all surprised because they need to keep the ship steady as we head to Brexit.
Martin Howe QC, a senior Tory lawyer who drew up the plans for Mr Cameron, said he “fully understood why Brexit must be put first” but urged Mrs May to include a reference to withdrawing from the ECHR.
He said: “They would be well advised to at least keep the option open of reforming human rights law and possibly withdrawing from the convention if that proves to be necessary.”
Five months ago, Jeremy Wright, the Attorney General, told MPs that the Government had “no quarrel with the content of the European Convention on Human Rights” but only the way it was applied.
Mr Wright said that while “the Government are certainly committed to seeking to do something about that” ministers “have a few other things on our plate at the moment”.
A Conservative Party spokesman declined to comment.
Captain Haddock
- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,922
The ECHR is neither here nor there in the scale of things. Occasionally there will be decisions which 'we' think are stupid providing click-bait for Mail readers but exactly the same can be said about decisions from 'our own' magistrates, High Court and Supreme Court fairly regularly.
The Grand Repeal Bill will just mean that our position post-Brexit is exactly the same as pre-Brexit and the ECHR can be reviewed in good time.
Personally I'd be looking long term to withdrawing from U.N. 1951 Convention and protocols dealing with Political Asylum which was written, with the best of intentions, specifically to deal with the displaced of Europe post WW2 and now covers everyone and his dog.
"Shall we go, you and I, while we can? Through the transitive nightfall of diamonds"
Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,295
Sensible thinking. This is where an increased majority will help her - not having to justify every step to the ultra right wing of her party. The following:
But another party source said the situation was “fluid at the moment, different people have different views on it” and that no final decisions had been taken.
roughly translated means "We are checking what John Redwood makes of it" which is farcical given that he and his ilk are simply backbench MPs.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Hardly surprising that the public mood is shifting with the unpleasantness between "In" and "Out" voters and politicians since the Referendum and the low level of debate that is a result of it. I must admit I wish the whole thing had never happened now.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-poll-times-yougov-mistake-theresa-may-labour-corbyn-election-turning-point-a7705301.htmlBrian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
people have made there choises, now they will have to live with it.
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,922
howard mcsweeney1 wrote:Hardly surprising that the public mood is shifting with the unpleasantness between "In" and "Out" voters and politicians since the Referendum and the low level of debate that is a result of it. I must admit I wish the whole thing had never happened now.
And always keep ahold of nurse
For fear of finding something worse.
http://monologues.co.uk/Childrens_Favourites/JimBelloc.htm"Shall we go, you and I, while we can? Through the transitive nightfall of diamonds"
Guest 1881- Registered: 16 Oct 2016
- Posts: 1,071
Captain Haddock wrote:The Grand Repeal Bill ...
That a 'synonym typo'? The Great Repeal Bill, innit? Or is there some sort of post-Bilderberg sophistication on the horizon that is well beyond the view of us lowly subjects of the UK?
Just because you don't take an interest in politics doesn't mean that politics won't take an interest in you. PERICLES.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
some out dated law brought in by henry the 8th,should be made obsaleat as soon as.
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,922
The Bishop wrote:That a 'synonym typo'? The Great Repeal Bill, innit? Or is there some sort of post-Bilderberg sophistication on the horizon that is well beyond the view of us lowly subjects of the UK?
Well spotted Your Grace. Like with a Mohammedan carpet weaver, my subconsciousness would appear to realise that only God can create perfection (though my doctor seems to be finding more and more design faults in some of the wonder of His creation
).
Guest 1881 likes this
"Shall we go, you and I, while we can? Through the transitive nightfall of diamonds"
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,922
An interesting review actually analysing why the majority voted Brexit in this week's Economist here:-
Brexit: Why Britain Voted to Leave the European Union.
http://www.economist.com/news/books-and-arts/21721358-book-makes-rare-attempt-use-survey-data-find-some-answers-explaininghoward mcsweeney1 likes this
"Shall we go, you and I, while we can? Through the transitive nightfall of diamonds"
Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,295
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/01/jean-claude-juncker-says-theresa-may-deluded-scathing-call-angela/
An interesting read. This is my big worry, that the UK side just doesn't get it, on any conceivable level. I don't even mean that in a pejorative way. As a country, the UK has spent years on the edge of Europe, geographically and metaphorically without ever needing to really engage in the detail. Now, given we want to leave, that detail becomes vitally important and we are hopelessly short of knowing how to play it. Stating "Strong and Stable" and "German car makers will always want to sell to Brits" will not be a suitable way around very technical and detailed negotiations. This is going to be a long and interesting ride.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Talks cannot go ahead without a divorce settlement agreed, rights of EU nationals living here are protected and the Irish land border issue sorted according to the EU. In other words we give guarantees without any guarantees in return. This is all going nowhere with Cruella trying to distract us by saying she needs more MPs in order to carry on with the non-negotiations. I think the ball is in the court of the EU to actually offer something so that we can offer something in return other than free money to bail out their economies.
John Buckley likes this
Button
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,027
Look on the bright side - we get guarantees for our ex-pats; the ILB solution works for the one with France too and, by extension, for Dover also (since ignoring the irrelevance of the ferries themselves, we are akin to a "land boundary").
(Not my real name.)
Guest 745- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
Drunker will give nothing.
The Torys will pay up to guaranty their friends in the city get full access to the markets.
Free moment will continue under the counter to fool the plebs so the bosses can have their fix of cheap taxpayers subsidised labour.
And it will all be supported by the Left.
howard mcsweeney1 likes this
Reginald Barrington
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 17 Dec 2014
- Posts: 3,227
Arte et Marte
Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,295
This is the great thing about Brexit, there is no place to hide.
Standard Government press lines from any meeting ever held will say it was "helpful, positive, constructive, useful". Even the very worst meeting, where tanks are stationed at the border are described as "Useful in identifying the challenges that lay ahead and helpful to identify areas of mutual concern" so you can 100% guarantee that the FAZ report is accurate. The FAZ is a decent paper by the way, hardly Bild.
But like I say, it is great because there is nowhere to hide. No amount of spincan get her out of this one, the facts will be the facts. You can "strong and stable, Brexit means Brexit" is into submission, but the facts will, for once, speak for themselves. Clearly this is a deliberate leak from the commission given the alarm at how little the PM's thinking has developed since June last year.
howard mcsweeney1 and Guest 1881 like this
Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,027
High on the Commission's shopping list appears to be the Irish Land Boundary. Given that neither Eire nor the UK are in Schengen, that we currently have a bilateral travel arrangement for people and that the UK physically will become to Eire and France what Switzerland is to its EU neighbours, one can see this subject rapidly focussing on trade/transport.
(Not my real name.)