Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Lesley Ives wrote:Barry, you may have noticed that the poor employer has now resorted to minimum hours to reduce the pay burden! Bah Humbug!
So you would prefer less employment then...
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
What is very clear from the reponses is confirmation of what I said above.
Some of you simply prefer to trust politicians, bureaucrats, rules and regulations while ignoring the consequences of those actions.
Me - I simply prefer to trust the markets. We would all be financially better off if we trusted the markets more and politicians less.
Guest 667- Registered: 6 Apr 2008
- Posts: 919
Barry are you saying we should be allowed to have employers give lower wages with more people then getting more benefits and having even more having to use food banks to get food?
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
To help get more full time jobs they must get rid of the fix rate for taking on staff.You can shout as much as you like about it but the boss will always find away round it because he has to or he would go bust.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
No - Harry.
I am saying let the markets determine wages and prices. That way we will get more wealth creation and more overall prosperity leading to less benefits and fewer food banks.
If we trusted the markets more we would have a more sustainable economy.
Guest 1033- Registered: 23 Aug 2013
- Posts: 509
If someone needs for example £200 a week to live, it must surely be better to get this amount directly from his or her employer than to get £100 in wages, £60 in housing benefit and the rest in tax credits, that way the money doesn't have to pass through several government and local authority departments which uses up resources. Its another oversimplification, but the basic principle is valid.
Guest 745- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
The problem is over supply of cheap labour from EU membership.
And lax open door immigration policy.
Good for the boss,, bad for the indigenous British workers
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
who kieth.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Keith Bibby wrote:The problem is over supply of cheap labour from EU membership.
And lax open door immigration policy.
Good for the boss,, bad for the indigenous British workers
You are correct in this Keith up to a point - Labour's open door policy was a disaster and matters have still not improved enough. Where I disagree is the 'good for the boss, bad for the....' bit. That suggests, for one thing, a them and us situation, that is not the case. Some large firms may like the supply of cheap labour but that does not apply to all. It is easy, after all is it not, to get cheap and motivated foreign labour whereas too much of our indigenous labour are far to comfy on benefits and unmotivated to be employable. We need to make the easy option harder while motivating our indigenous lot with a kick up the backsides - be cruel to be kind....
Guest 745- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
You're wrong Barry only 10% of benefits go to people out of work
British workers are not lazy or need a kick up the rectum.
Low pay having to be subsidised by the taxpayer's borrowings is the problem
You fall into the Tory trap of thinking big pay at the top is productive
Low pay at the bottom is good.
I Don't think you grasp the basic flow rule of economics,
Money must circulate around the system in order to stimulate and heat all parts
Bit like radiators in your house.
If all the hot water stays in one room the rest of the house gets cold and shuts down
The money cycle.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Lesley Ives wrote:Barry, I take umbridge at your comment that " businesses are not Charities". I have very close dealings with a Charity which IS an employer and I can assure you we have well payed, above the min wage, staff. All have pension rights and are well looked after. We value their contribution to the Charity and could not afford to be without them.
I am sick or hearing excuses for treating people like dirt, and that is what the pathetic attempt to justify bad employers is.
Where was I talking about charities? I was referring to commercial businesses full stop. Charities have different objectives and priorities - some charities just happen also to be the worse employers/landlords/customers to have incidentally. They are not all 'good employers' in the same way that some of the worse employers have also been the Trade Unions.
The best way to deal with a 'bad employer' is to be able to tell him to stick his job and to do that you need a prosperous economy providing the jobs. Government interference, rules, red tape restrictions and high taxation damage all business the good along with the bad. As I said you should trust the market to sort out the good and bad, it is the best way. The bad will not survive long.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Keith Bibby wrote:You're wrong Barry only 10% of benefits go to people out of work
British workers are not lazy or need a kick up the rectum.
Low pay having to be subsidised by the taxpayer's borrowings is the problem
You fall into the Tory trap of thinking big pay at the top is productive
Low pay at the bottom is good.
I Don't think you grasp the basic flow rule of economics,
Money must circulate around the system in order to stimulate and heat all parts
Bit like radiators in your house.
If all the hot water stays in one room the rest of the house gets cold and shuts down
The money cycle.
When you throw out statistics make sure they are relevant. My comments on benefits encompass in work as well as out of work benefits. Did I not say about phasing out tax credits?
Not all Brit workers are lazy of course but far too many are and are unemployable as many employers will testify.
I certainly have never at any time have said low pay is good. I want people to earn as much as possible but you will not get that through benefits and a minimum wage.
Do not ever try to tell me about economic. B****y cheek. I deal with economic issues daily in my profession. I have forgotten more about economics than you know and thats not much.
Guest 745- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
Barry
You have publicly stated the economy is improving have you not.
The trade deficit has gone up to over 100 billon a year, and the national debt is going up,
we are still borrowing billons every year.
Your government's money printing has never stopped in the three years you have been in government .
With all your supposed financial experience, haw can you come up with statements like this.??
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
at the end of the day bad employers end up with bad staff who will do the minimum required to get through the day.
shrewd employers make sure their staff feel valued which means they get better results and of course better profits.
hardly rocket science.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Keith Bibby wrote:Barry
You have publicly stated the economy is improving have you not.
The trade deficit has gone up to over 100 billon a year, and the national debt is going up,
we are still borrowing billons every year.
Your government's money printing has never stopped in the three years you have been in government .
With all your supposed financial experience, haw can you come up with statements like this.??
Keith you need to calm down a bit as you are making yourself look rather silly. 'supposed financial experience' LOL. Yes, well a booming business running around £20million of funds under advice within a range of bespoke portfolios I have put together and you say 'supposed' financial experience....
If you knew anything about money and economics or even if you actually read what I have been saying you would have learned something about what you speak.
I have said many times that the government has not cut spending fast or deep enough and until the deficit is balanced the debt will keep building. neither have they cut taxes enough or reformed the supply-side enough either. But nevertheless despite that Osborne has been taking us in the right direction and his medicine is working, that is quite clear from the numbers coming through. More needs to be done but improving is exactly what is happening to the economy in spite of there being more challenges ahead.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,888
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
Post 36 hit the nail on the head ,when my family move their factorys from London to Northhamshire you can login to their main site,BI Engineering works,Crane Close,Denington Industril Estate,Willingborogh they asked their workers to go with them and the company would help with the cost of the move ,the workers done that and now over 20years later they are still there with the company good boss, good workers it was a good move for the companys and the lads that worked there and their familys.and now some of their familys have growen up and they to work for the same company.Same where I worked the boss is very good to the workers and inreturn some have been there over 25years and are very skilled I loved it there and the work and still miss it.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,888
The problem being is not those but the bad employers
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
Yes they are not all good ,but then anyone working for a boss like that will not work so well and when times get better and they are skilled in some way they will be gone.I think I must have been lucky in my working years in that 99
% of companys I worked for were good.
Guest 667- Registered: 6 Apr 2008
- Posts: 919
If we did away with the minimum wage do we honestly believe that many restaurants, hotels, petrol stations, tourist attractions etc etc will pay staff a living wage, in fact all those currently paying the minimum wage will more than likely find a way to drop the wages they are paying to a much lower level.
The minimum wage is suppose to be a safeguard against Companies paying peanuts and if Companies are breaking the law they should be brought to task. It also shows that not all businesses can be trusted and many are happy to see staff having to use tax credits and benefits to get a living wage while they make big profits.
This Government does nothing about companies paying below the minimum wage and are also happy to sit back and see employers use the other loop hole of Non Contract hours where a Company can take on staff use them when and where they want for as little as they want and discard them just as quick.