Guest 1881- Registered: 16 Oct 2016
- Posts: 1,071
Bob Whysman wrote:Looks like Theresa May won the vote 200 for 117 against.
Yep. A pyrrhic victory at best.
Just because you don't take an interest in politics doesn't mean that politics won't take an interest in you. PERICLES.
Reginald Barrington
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 17 Dec 2014
- Posts: 3,225
The Bishop wrote:Yep. A pyrrhic victory at best.
What cost, can only have improved her circumstance?
Arte et Marte
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Clever stuff from the PM in convincing the MPs that she would be leaving before the next General Election, even the press swallowed it. Meanwhile high fives all round at Labour HQ.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,788
I wonder how many of those who voted for her did so simply because they did not want even more chaos at Westminster. Mrs May is without doubt a very unpopular woman as PM and possibly privately.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Following on from Jan's post, Matthew Parris writing in the Times.
Like so many whose lives have brushed with Theresa May’s, my first meeting with her left almost no impression. It was in the 1990s and she had invited me to speak at her Maidenhead Conservative association’s annual dinner. We must have spent two or three hours together, she, her husband, Philip, and I — and all that sticks in the memory is a certain stiffness (but not unfriendliness), no political conversation and a faint intimation that for her these occasions were more duty than pleasure. I’d have used the word “shy”. In this and subsequent encounters, Philip May was a quiet but always significant presence. You somehow just know — by a look, by a touch — when a partnership is real, and central to two lives. It was not surprising to see him in the Commons gallery for her tough test at PMQs yesterday.
My second encounter was more revealing. Some years ago, when she was still home secretary and (in retrospect) already dreaming of leadership, she made a tour of East Midlands activists that culminated in a big dinner in Derbyshire. She surprised many of us with a strong, if fairly empty, speech and seemed relaxed and in command. Questions from the audience were respectful and she fielded them competently. Then a woman got up from a table near the window. We all recognised Edwina Currie, who had been MP for a neighbouring constituency. Her husband is a retired senior police officer. Not long before, Mrs May had made a pugnacious speech to the Police Federation, with whom she clashed. Mrs Currie’s question was courteous but critical, suggesting that Mrs May had failed to support the police. “Well,” I thought, “May will know how to answer this one.” But she fell apart. She was like a TV presenter whose Autocue had gone on the blink. Mentally or emotionally unprepared for a hostile question from a friendly audience, she floundered. She could have tackled Mrs Currie either with diplomacy or fightback, but both failed her. I was shocked. Here was a senior cabinet minister, sometimes spoken of as a future leader, who, faced with the unforeseen, seemed entirely incapable of busking it.
Later that night she and her husband accompanied our local MP, Patrick McLoughlin, and his wife to dinner at my home. I’d feared the evening might be tense, but we fast realised that — on one condition — Mrs May was pleasant company. The condition was that you didn’t talk politics. If anyone did, a shutter came down. And I learnt that this well-mannered woman was a good hater. At the mention of a particular colleague’s name her lip curled, she made no attempt to conceal her dislike, and rather seemed to enjoy the disdain. My next encounter, during the 2017 general election campaign, was arguably the closest and I didn’t even meet her. For the BBC’s Newsnight programme I was asked to write a documentary whose working title was Who is Theresa May? Mrs May and her team would have nothing to do with it. But I did have a long and frank interview with an old university friend of hers.
She told me of the young Theresa Brasier’s method of road-testing young men in her search for the right boyfriend, even testing their knowledge of cricket. There were curious echoes here of the young Margaret Roberts’s trialling of boyfriends, not always consecutively, as described in Charles Moore’s biography of Baroness Thatcher. Here, it seemed, were two young women with an almost coldly strategic approach to the selection and pursuit of life goals. Interestingly, Mrs May’s university friend was emphatic that the young Miss Brasier had been “One Nation” in her Conservatism and suggested that she had not been a great admirer of Lady Thatcher’s rather “right-wing” politics. Nor had she much doubt that even as an undergraduate, her friend had dreamt of the top job in politics.
What kind of a person emerged from my research? To my surprise, most accounts did not greatly differ. Even to her friends she was an enigma: an enigma whose hard outer shell was easy to know and describe, but whose interior was a mystery. Nobody thought she was stupid and nobody thought she was brilliant. Everyone thought her determined. Nobody praised her powers of communication or persuasion. Nobody called her warm. Everyone admired her stamina. The picture of a single-minded, unsentimental and almost relentless woman was forming in my mind. But there was something missing. What did she want to make of her job? What, to her, was leadership for? To whom, if anyone, did she confide hopes, fears, love or affection?
I have since been learning how her Commons colleagues see her. And it’s the same old problem. What does she want? What does she think? It calls to mind the question “knock-knock — who’s there?” While some are mystified by her inscrutability, many are now exasperated. My last encounter with her was not long after she became prime minister. Being regarded as a “friendly” journalist, I was invited to Downing Street for coffee. It was appalling. I had arrived with one thought in mind: to warn her that the Tory right would never be her friends, and she should not lose the respect of Tory moderates. But instead of engaging, all I got was what sounded like extracts from old speeches. And this to an old colleague and friend. I kissed her as I left. She looked a little alarmed. But the truth is I had arrived as a supporter, and departed dismayed. Win though she did last night, hundreds of her MPs have made the same transition.
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Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,788
"And I learnt that this well-mannered woman was a good hater. At the mention of a particular colleague’s name her lip curled, she made no attempt to conceal her dislike, and rather seemed to enjoy the disdain."
That explains why the Whip was withdrawn from Charlie for being a naughty boy when more serious problems are ignored. May has always struck me as not the type of person you could chat with, she comes across as one of those who would turn a friendly debate into an argument.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
This rather sums her up for me, when asked why claimants were having benefits stopped
because they were in hospital or undergoing chemotherapy and were unable to attend interviews she simply recited "work is the best way out of poverty".
"Being regarded as a “friendly” journalist, I was invited to Downing Street for coffee. It was appalling. I had arrived with one thought in mind: to warn her that the Tory right would never be her friends, and she should not lose the respect of Tory moderates. But instead of engaging, all I got was what sounded like extracts from old speeches."
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
These are the front runners with the bookies, maybe Charlie has more inside knowledge?
Boris Johnson
4/1
Dominic Raab
5/1
Sajid Javid
6/1
Michael Gove
7/1
Jeremy Hunt
7/1
David Davis
12/1
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,788
Even though I know little about him I would prefer Sajid Javid out of that lot, from what I have read he seems to get things done rather than making the usual empty promises.
howard mcsweeney1 likes this
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Captain Haddock
- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,877
Jan Higgins and howard mcsweeney1 like this
"Shall we go, you and I, while we can? Through the transitive nightfall of diamonds"
Button
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,007
My word, Boris is favourite to win?! Sounds to me like the bookies:
- have a low opinion of the Conservative party, or
- think he'll come out of adolescence in the next few years, or
- have hit on a scam to increase cash flow.
Jan Higgins likes this
(Not my real name.)
Paul Watkins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 9 Nov 2011
- Posts: 2,225
No to Boris, Gove or Davis in my view. Raab ,Javid or Hunt would be ok , although I think Raab is probably the more marketable at present.
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,788
Going by the number of comments recently about Brexit from Amber Rudd is she going to make a bid for leader when the time comes or is she simply May's public mouth piece?
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Jan Higgins wrote:Going by the number of comments recently about Brexit from Amber Rudd is she going to make a bid for leader when the time comes or is she simply May's public mouth piece?
I don't see her being a contender as she has one of the smallest majorities in the Commons and Labour are actively targeting it. Boris seems to have gone quiet of late which normally means he is plotting something.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
I wonder what would happen to the Tory party if Boris became leader as many prominent MPs have stated that they would have to consider whether to continue in the party or simply leave. I have heard a few say that the Tories are the party of pragmatism and idealogues have effectively taken over. Mind you that could be said about the Labour party too but things can change very quickly.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
A new twist on things in the Sunday Times.
Theresa May’s allies are plotting to keep her in Downing Street for at least another two years amid growing confidence that she will get her Brexit deal through parliament. Her supporters in cabinet have been buoyed by what they believe to be a substantial shift in political arithmetic in the Commons. This follows secret talks between May’s chief Brexit negotiator Ollie Robbins and his European counterparts last week. Plans being floated by a prominent cabinet minister would see May hang on to power until the autumn of 2021 when she would hand over the keys of No 10 to a new Conservative leader. The new prime minister would then have about nine months to prepare their team before the next general election, due in May 2022.
The party’s internal politics have become so febrile that only a week ago two of May’s most senior colleagues were preparing for a second referendum behind her back. Now her allies report a “significant improvement” in the number of MPs who are prepared to support her proposed withdrawal agreement. A senior cabinet minister confirmed that the plan had been discussed with leading party figures, possibly even including the prime minister herself. The loyalist said the move would allow May to carry out at least two more reshuffles before leaving Downing Street. The first, which is expected shortly after March next year, would allow her to “slay the old guard” and promote a new generation of cabinet ministers. According to those familiar with the proposal, Philip Hammond, Chris Grayling, Liam Fox and Greg Clark could all be axed to make way for fresh talent and a younger looking cabinet, with the majority then being under the age of 50.
May will seek to capitalise on momentum behind her Brexit deal by inviting all Tory MPs and their partners to a party at No 10 in the week beginning January 7, when parliament returns.
Speculation is swirling that the prime minister may be able to extract a meaningful concession from the EU on the Irish backstop, the insurance policy that aims to keep the border on the island of Ireland open after Brexit. Robbins was back in Brussels again last week despite the insistence of the European Commission that no talks were being held between the two sides. He is understood to have held talks with his European counterparts on Wednesday in the hope of reaching an agreement by the second week of January. This would enable some members of the arch-Eurosceptic European Research Group (ERG), including Jacob Rees-Mogg, its chairman, to back the deal. A cabinet minister described securing Rees-Mogg’s support for the deal as “work in progress”.
Other Brexiteers have come under pressure from their local Conservative Party associations. At least two rebels have been threatened with deselection by their constituency party chairmen after publicly supporting efforts to oust May. The relationship between the Tories and the DUP, which has been in the deep freeze, appears to be thawing. It follows a successful one-to-one meeting between May and Arlene Foster this month when the DUP leader “saw the whites of May’s eyes and realised she was serious about securing concessions on the backstop”, an ally said. It is understood that the changes required by the DUP are significant and the EU is not going to offer them straight away. It is now expected that the government could bring forward a second vote within two days if May’s deal is voted down when the meaningful vote is held in the week beginning January 14. “It’s now very much our expectation that we can win this vote, if not the first time then the second time around,” according to a senior government source. Damian Hinds, the education secretary, called on colleagues to spend the Christmas break reflecting on the alternatives to May’s deal as he rejected claims by Amber Rudd, the work and pensions secretary, that there is a “plausible argument” for holding a second referendum if parliament fails to reach a consensus.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Our Home Secretary has been taking a bashing from his party over the unofficial migrants issue which will damage his chances of becoming leader. I don't see there is much he can do other than waffle away like everybody else involved. We know that organised crime is involved and the French dismantled one gang but others just spring up to replace any that are banged up.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Guest 745- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
its all about the numbers?
only votes make governments and the next government will need the middle class and working class voters to get over the line.. MPs can pick a leader but only the voters can pick a government, MPs need to think hard on who can win the voters ?
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
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