Guest 1057- Registered: 21 Sep 2013
- Posts: 25
#156 This Newsletter is worrying me...where has Shepherdswell gone?? There is one page 'Puckland Woods' which shows Shepherdswell, the rest is just an advert for an 'Anti Group', using this application to get their photos and name everywhere. Are the residents really supporting this newsletter and web page, I cannot see any real evidence of that. The Parish Council do not seem to be as the website for Shepherdswell with Coldred does not mention the newsletter nor the web page that was set up, so, it emphasises the possibility that this group has marched on and is representing their own agenda. And I apologise but I cannot bring myself to listen to the song.
Have EKAF purposely timed their town hall meeting to clash with the parish council meeting, where residents should be going to gain information and sound advice on how to help their village and neighbours. What is happening in USA and Mexico will not come into the discussion at KCC, this is time being wasted when it could be better spent putting together an appropriate and well managed objection.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,919
This is going to cause quite a debate.
I fully understand concerns and the lack of answers on the damage that may be caused by this, or any future works
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 725- Registered: 7 Oct 2011
- Posts: 1,418
Rather worrying. They cite experts including a fossil hunter, a climate change expert, testimony from the Ecologist magazine, the much discredited film "Gaslands" features on the east kent against fracking website. As for the song - more like kumbaya my lord than anything else.
I think that it's really important for locals to voice their concerns about this issue but it seems as if the Balcombe effect has kicked in and any sensible debate has been lost by giving voice to those with an axe to grind.
A missed opportunity.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i hope that everyone is familiar with the fracking song in time for the meeting at the town hall tomorrow.
members of the audience will be picked at random to give a rendition on stage.
Guest 1694- Registered: 24 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,087
Now I'll be in trouble for this - posting facts gathered in this country, but as I've already posted on another forum and have spoken with some people (both in the company concerned and in the local area concerned) I'll post here as well for my vilification:)
Tracey, have you contacted anyone at the Doe Green site, local residents, parish council, etc? I don't know, but it may be helpful to speak with a council - residents who have experienced test drilling and subsequently gone into production in a less febrile atmosphere. Their actual experience of what went well and what went wrong could be invaluable for you in focusing in on the areas where the drilling company has fallen short and, in the end, achieve a higher standard of safety and industrial probity here.
I had an interesting chat yesterday with the UK's first (and currently only) commercial Coal Bed Methane Extraction site now in production since 2010. Different geology I know, but just in case anyone is actually interested in what the process is really like and what it involves here in the UK (the method used at this site will, I am told by an engineer familiar with our local coal seam geology, be pretty much identical) I'll post the website below with the panels that they have used to communicate with the community at a new site they wish to develop. Strangely - yet unsurprisingly (or strangely unsurprising), no fracking is involved and no water or chemicals are injected into the ground.
www.igas-barton.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/igas-panels-irlam.pdf
Page/Panel 18 is particularly interesting.
Please do bear in mind that the above is produced by a Gas (vested interest in making it look good) company trying to communicate clearly and concisely with lay people (all postings of others' opinions and material should come with a health warning telling us where they have come from so that we can take the appropriate amount of salt).
However, it should also be noted that they have a successful production site at Doe Green that has been in operation for near 3 years - anyone heard of Doe Green? nope thought there wouldn't be a rush - if the nightmares promulgated by our anti-fracking friends were based in and on frequent occurrences representing a statistically relevant level of incidence at all sites, then i think we may all have heard of Doe Green by now.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,874
Thank you Neil, but you must remember that some will never let facts get in the way of their preformed ideas.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 904- Registered: 21 Mar 2013
- Posts: 312
Exactly Jan - 'Fracking' has become a trendy word for those professional 'objectionists' who have absolutely bugger all to do with an area, but still want to wring their hands.
The first point is that this isn't Fracking, it's methane extraction.
The second, and major point I feel, is the traffic that will be generated on roads that can barely accommodate a car and a motorcycle passing each other.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
Neil's IGas brochure is very big on graphics, the better to afford the interested reader a clearer understanding of all matters arising from such work, and shows that issues such as noise and heavy-vehicular access are often enough to scupper plans for the development of a particular site.
While noise-pollution was a major concern, the 'circle' of traffic access was 'squared' by on-site electricity generation. At least it seems so, to me.
Of course it is not IGas that is proposing to operate in East Kent, but the Regulatory Authorities, and their inspection teams, will be the same Country-wide.
And while the information from IGas is all well and good...
"• Surface Water
There are a number of ditches that drain the site and these represent potential
sensitive receptors for any possible existing contamination.
-
Three rounds of surface water samples have been collected from the drainage
ditch nearest to the site for detailed laboratory analysis of the water composition.
-
Further samples and analysis will be undertaken during drilling operations "
Its all pretty much reliant upon the tolerances of the Regulators as to whether residents concerns, and their health, are to be given due regard.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
just a reminder of the meeting tonight at the town hall kick off 7. 30 p.m.
hopefully all present will have learned the fracking song off by heart prior to the meeting.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
just heard that kcc will not be holding any public meetings on the this subject which tells me that the decision to go ahead and drill has been taken.
waste of time learning the fracking song.
Guest 1694- Registered: 24 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,087
Not quite Howard - KCC have, or are going to, put out a press release on the postponement of the public meetings at each of the sites and the reason is because of the sensible questions that have so far been asked for more information on safety and protection of groundwater and the meetings have been postponed until Coastal answer the questions and provide additional information. In answering the questions and in carrying out additional safety measures, the substance of the applications are likely to change and the meetings will be rescheduled for once all this information is supplied and any modifications to the applications that are required have been made.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i am reading the situation differently to you neil, i hope you are right but my gut feeling is that exploratory drilling will go ahead without any further public consultation. not that public consultations really mean much anyway, usually just an excuse for those in charge to say they have listened to the concerns of the public.
Guest 1694- Registered: 24 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,087
If I'm wrong, Howard, then plenty of opportunity for mischief making around misleading the public. Full text of press release below:
16 October 2013
Discussions between Kent County Council, the Environment Agency and other interested parties have led to the cancellation of a planned public meeting on three planning applications for exploratory boreholes in the Dover area, which was due to take place early next month.
In order to allow a full and proper assessment to be made of all impacts of the proposals, the applicant Coastal Oil and Gas is being asked to provide more information, which in turn could lead to significant changes to the proposals.
John Davies, Chairman of the Planning Applications Committee at Kent County Council, said: "It would be wrong to hold a public meeting and ask for local opinion on these proposals when we are not in possession of the full facts. It is possible that there could be substantial changes in information. For the same reason, it would also be inappropriate for my Committee Members to visit the three sites."
Upon the receipt of additional information that Coastal Oil and Gas will need to provide, further consideration will be given to their proposals by KCC in consultation with other relevant bodies and the local community before any decisions are made.
The three applications are KCC/DO/0216/2013, KCC/DO/0217/2013, and KCC/DO/0218/2013 for temporary use of land for up to 52 weeks to allow drilling of an exploratory borehole top test insitu coal measures for methane gas, including provision of drilling rigs and associated site compound at Guston Court Farm, Guston; former Tilmanstone Colliery, Eythorne; and Shepherdswell respectively.
Above copy and paste from KCC website.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
it is hardly a new thing neil so i am surprised these questions have not been answered before, the environment agency would have full knowledge of previous drillings.
if the concerns are just over the 3 local ones then coastal oil and gas are hardly likely to come up with any more information as their geologist could not answer any questions at the guston meeting.
Guest 1057- Registered: 21 Sep 2013
- Posts: 25
It's not a new thing you are right but for instance our water supply in Kent is very different from areas in Wales and Scotland where they have drilled boreholes before. Where it maybe an acceptable risk elsewhere where the majority of their domestic water supply comes from surface water run off from rivers and moorlands into reservoirs, here in east kent we are a designated water scarce area and we rely heavily on water extracted from boreholes into the aquifer. Any compromise of this source could easily outweigh any benefit from the extraction of gas. We are different and it is many issues such as this that has given reason for concern. I am pleased that someone is actually listening and I hope it proves a positive outcome :)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
But are k.c.c. actually listening?
they have a lot of money tied up in fracking companies, not coastal oil and gas i believe - but any refusal of drilling rights locally would set a precedent and possibly have a severe effect on the share prices of hitherto successful businesses.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,919
looks like KCC have chosen not to listen
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 1694- Registered: 24 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,087
Howard, really
have you become the conspiracy theorists friend?
The companies that the KCC Pension fund is invested in are primarily oil and gas companies which currently derive a relatively tiny proportion of their income from activities and extraction obtained through fracking - it is quite misleading to describe them as fracking companies. Coastal Oil and Gas is not a fracking company either - it is an exploration and extraction company that is not currently involved in any actual fracking and recognises that in East Kent the most commercially rewarding gas availability is in the coal seams which do not require hydraulic fracturing, so they won't be fracking here either.
The Coal Seams here in East Kent are underlain by Carboniferous Limestone which fracking is unlikely to yield any commercial quantities of gas - so the coal seams is where the gas may be sufficiently rich, no fracking, and the issues are all around how well isolated the wells are from the rocks through which they pass on their way to the seams and then what happens with the coal seam water - is it recirculated in a closed loop creating a venturi effect to lower the pressure in the seam sufficiently to realease the gas in the same way as happens at Doe Green? or is it removed and treated before release to the environment to reduce the pressure in the seam and release the gas? If the latter, what are the safe guards, how will contaminants be removed, etc.
From my limited knowledge, groups like Tracey's at Guston asking sensible questions which come from the real issues are ensuring that KCC, the EA and Coastal Oil and Gas take their questions very seriously and that Tracey and other sensible people like her are in fact being listened to.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Got me there neil i have always believed thar the moon landings were filmed on romney marsh..
anyway let''s cut to the quick you must have been at tonight's meeting, so what did you glean?
Guest 1694- Registered: 24 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,087
Hi Howard, as it was a meeting to talk about opposing fracking in East Kent, it was entirely irrelevant to anything to do with the current applications, so I found myself at a far more important and relevant event at the Girls' Grammar, where it was their Awards evening, to watch my number 2 daughter (April) and all her friends and school colleagues pick up their awards for academic excellence.