Guest 944- Registered: 16 May 2013
- Posts: 57
I attended the meeting of DDC's Planning Committee last week where they considered a difficult and complex application, CGI's proposals to build at Farthingloe and the Western Heights.
The officers, probably under considerable political pressure, had recommended approval, but with the number of houses at Farthingloe reduced to 365. The councillors on the committee (with the notable exceptions of cllrs Cronk and Gardner) disregarded this and gave approval for up to 521, despite the fact that Farthingloe is in an Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty, which should afford it the highest protection, and contrary to the core policy of DDC's own Local Development Framework. The reason given was the need to secure investment on the Western Heights (although virtually no mitigation is proposed at Farthingloe where the vast majority of development will take place). But worst of all, some councillors actually tried to water-down the very sensible conditions the officers recommended be imposed to ensure that the investment in heritage and for the community actually happen.
Cllr Norris (also Chair of Dover and Deal Conservatives) said that they shouldn't fetter the developers too much and should trust them! He seems to be unaware that the primary goal of a developer like this is to maximise the return on their investment. In fact that is probably their only goal. If you don't impose conditions through the planning process, the commmunity will get diddly squat from a project like this. So, I have to conclude that we can no longer rely on the current (Conservative) administration to protect the District's environment. I'll put my cards on the table and say I live at Little Farthingloe, so take a keen interest in what is proposed opposite my house. This also means I know better than the members of the committee the impact this will have (some were downright dismissive of that impact; "houses are nice to look at" said Cllr Beresford). But this has implications for the whole district.
No part of it is safe from developers if Farthingloe (in AONB) is not safe. I was a Conservative District Councillor on DDC from 1998-2011, including for a time Group Leader and Vice Chair of the Planning Committee. Following this meeting I resigned from the Conservative Party. Our environment, our landscape and our heritage is NOT safe in their hands and they won't get my vote any time soon.
Andrew Richardson
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
welcome andrew hope you dont mind me editing your post to make it more digestible, nothing taken away i hasten to add.
i have to say that i am in favour of the western heights plans because of heritage protection but not really up to speed on the farthingloe part.
Guest 725- Registered: 7 Oct 2011
- Posts: 1,418
I haven't seen the plans but in principle I'm broadly in favour of a plan which might lead to some semblance of regeneration of the area. I walk around the heights now and then and can see nothing which anyone might describe as an area of outstanding natural beauty. Sure it's pleasant and a nice stroll and all that but I rarely see others using the place except for the odd walker and those taking their dogs for a walk.
The heights is just a hotch potch of overgrown bushes and dilapidated buildings from an earlier era. It's ripe for development in my mind.
Put it this way would anyone prefer a wind farm or solar array or keep the area as it is or something which might encourage investment in the area?
Guest 944- Registered: 16 May 2013
- Posts: 57
The main impact in the AONB will be at Farthingloe, basically extending the town up the valley. Nobody has satisfactorily explained to me how it can be right to implement a large housing development in one place (Farthingloe- 521 houses and a residential home) whilst all the mitigation (investment in heritage etc) will be at a totally separate place (the Western Heights).The investment being proposed at the Western Heights is being offered by CGI solely because without it they know they would never get approval to build the houses at Farthingloe (in designated AONB), which is their main objective. They own Great Farthingloe on the south side of the valley and want to maximise their investment there. Thankfully they have nothing to do with Little Farthingloe, which is my parents' place.
So it is very important that any planning permission is tightly conditioned to ensure they deliver on their promises to invest in the Western Heights, otherwise those promises will likely prove empty. I agree the Western Heights need tidying up and the important sites there need investment, but this isn't the way to go about it. I'm a professional archaeologist, so am pretty familiar with what is up there.
Andrew Richardson
Guest 967- Registered: 9 Jun 2013
- Posts: 28
I completely agree that this should not happen and I will fyt until that 1st brick is laid to stop this!
Rollin wiv the punches
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
i am also in favour of the development,more so for the western hieghts.also as a whole with farthingloe.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
I can understand what you are saying Mr Richardson but this is the onlyway to save what Dover has at the Western Hights and if you follow the plans day by day you as you already know you can have a say with others in what is happing.I must say Mr Richardson I did not see you saying anything about all the housing that is now going to go up at Whitfield support was need more from the public when that development came to light some years ago.As I have already said it is the ONLY way forward because that is the only way to get the funding. When development end up on our own doorstep there is a outcry from the public living there and that we can understand and you are also right to try and save the area you live in,but that kind of understanding and the support you hope to get from the Gen/Public should be the same from yourself about other developments. You will have E/H and other groups also keeping a keen eye open on what happens and they do have a big say in what and what does not go there.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,860
Welcome Richard,
Now it affects yourself(after your years as a conservative Cllr) it's nice at least to see you come out, maybe at a to late stage, but at least its welcome.
My views on the planning committee hasn't changed over the years, although it's normally the officers at fault, it appears this time it is the cllrs.
Did our Roger support the proposal as he lives very close by?
It would also be interesting to know whether or not Cllr Cronk supported in the past building in Deal such as Sholden
or was this a , well it's Dover so it don't affect me.
Did you speak at the planning committee Andrew?
Looks like this debate will go on
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Guest 967- Registered: 9 Jun 2013
- Posts: 28
So answer this how is housin goin to improve dover? And if ur pinnin all ur hopes on the money from cgi for the heights then I really hope they pay out as they will not put that in concrete!
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Rollin wiv the punches
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,860
didn't post 7 object to the building in whitfied?
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Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
I did object by the only way I could that was join the parish council at Whitfield so what are you trying to say,?out with it.
The kind of housing they are going to be put there is not the kind I would like to see .I said many times Dover needs upper class housing and that is the best place to put some, there would not be so many and they would be goodlooking houses,Dover needs some upper class public with money in their banks and the kind of housing they need is no where in Dover and they would get great views from up there. So I do not think there is a call in Dover for 500 homes at around £180,000£200,000,on top of all the others going at Whitfield at this time. But one goodthing about the Western hights and Maxton ones will see money going into Dover History site at the hights and not lost by the D.D.C.also I have talking out against the bad planning dept for years and still do at council meetings,but in the forward planning of Dover we could see the end of our own football ground,so lots to think about. Nothing is going to happen for some years yet and by then my days might even be up.But we are seeing the end of local parishs as we know them,River is a parish by name only . Even call by some as North Dover.Whitfield going the same way or even gone.And Maxton by name is still a parish,so is the Western hights, I did try some years ago to get the public living up there to go for geting back their parish name and trying to forum their own council. But going away from this post now so will end it there.
Guest 904- Registered: 21 Mar 2013
- Posts: 312
A degree of schadenfreude here: a former Conservative councillor, involved with planning at District level, objects to planning when it directly affects him. Maybe, Mr Richardson, you now understand how planning blights people's lives on both sides of the divide, whether permission be approved or denied.
The Farthingloe development is taking place on a former industrial site, one that still bears the marks of that use, so to describe it all as an Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty is quite plainly wrong. Dover needs extra housing to generate a greater footfall, only then will firms and retail look at Dover as a viable place to invest in. The jobs this will create locally (in the short term) will benefit our brickies, chippies, sparkies and plasterers, longer term - well we'll have to see.
Having said that, the intensity of the development is concerning: 300 odd houses would be reasonable, 500 odd seems like an awful lot of pressure to put on the western edge of Dover. The levels of traffic down Folkestone Road concern me, especially at the pinch point with Elms Vale Road, again we'll have to keep an eye on developments.
Whilst the degree of money being made available for the Western Heights can only be good, what will the effect be on the equally historic Citadel Battery area? I can't help but think that vandalism will increase to the Citadel Battery and Farthingloe HAA site, being at the top of the hill overlooking the development.
Once completed, I hope that the western boundary of Dover for development is fixed at Farthingloe Farm, further development along the valley would be unacceptable, being totally and historically 'green field'.
On balance, I think the CGI development is good for Dover, some will be affected no doubt but in this instance they'll have to 'take one for the team' - the greater good of Dover is at stake here.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
a couple of points to add, firstly paul is right about the location being mainly on a former industrial site.
secondly it is not only the western heights heritage that will benefit financially, money has been set aside for a new school, care beds for the new hospital/clinic, country footpaths and transport links.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,860
interesting you can object to whitfield
yet its ok for other areas
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Guest 904- Registered: 21 Mar 2013
- Posts: 312
Oh come on Keith, keep the personal politics with Vic out of this and discuss the subject of this thread.
Planning isn't a blanket subject as well you know. What is wrong for one place can be right for another, that's why we have have (in theory) planning control.
Each application has to be considered on its own merits.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,860
Unfortunatly Paul, that's how the planning dept has got it wrong in the ;past
something that even that poster spoke on many times at planning committee
I have no personal stuff, just pointing things out.
So, taking your view Paul Andrew shouldn't complain either?
Its all very strange that now we find the need for a new school where as a few years ago schools were closed.
Like Whitfield, this is quite a big change to a small area, will it enhance the green belt area? is it right for the area?
On that we can only wait and see
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Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
12 & 15, spot on, Paul.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 745- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
And jobs for the new comers will come from ??
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Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,860
That's another issue not thought out Keith B
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Guest 904- Registered: 21 Mar 2013
- Posts: 312
Keith, one would presume that to buy a house, one would have a job already...