ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
Humbert - As far as I can see, CGI's website is a rather out of date mish mash of misleading publicity and not much else. Their submissions to Companies House make much more interesting reading. I am against the Farthingloe development (the Western Heights aspect is a bit of a red herring) because I think it is wholly inappropriate site for a development of that magnitude.
In the course of following this sorry saga I have become increasingly suspicious about the company and its links with local politics. I know nothing about Dover Gateway Ltd and do not understand the relevance of your comments. If you really do have information outside the public domain (as your post seems to imply) then I would be happy to hear it.
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Guest 2525- Registered: 19 Mar 2018
- Posts: 11
Yes ... sorry all I know will not change the fact that the isreal bank wants its money back ....and they will not stop till the development goes ahead and as for the other 3 owners thier shares owe them nothing ... so they will also keep spending to make money from it ...
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
Thank you for the clarification, Humbert. Your research leads you to the same conclusions as mine. Whatever assets CGI had at Manston appear now to have dissipated. Their accounts are qualified (quite rightly) by the fact that they owe the Israeli Discount Bank £45m. They have no other apparent assets apart from the Farthingloe Valley. I have struggled to get to the bottom of how and when this land, which has never had planning permission, was acquired.
I believe from my days at Eurotunnel that it was owned by Eurotunnel Developments Ltd (EDL) which was a wholly owned subisdiary of the Channel Tunnel group. This was a progression from when the land was used by TML to house its workers during the construction phase. EDL at one time proposed to build a technology village on part of the site but this was abandoned when the French took effective control of Eurotunnel and it became clear that previous planning constraints would be applied. Since the change of ownership to CGI, little has been done to restore the land to its original condition. Although the portakabins are gone, the terracing remains. And the hideous old concrete sports complex (where I worked for over a year) remains a blot on the landscape.
Sorry to waffle on about the history but it is relevant.
You are right that the Israelis are pressing hard for either a return on their investment on their money back. Clearly, if they are forced to settle for the latter, it would be a colossal financial loss to them.
Yet our professional planning officers were so concerned about the magnitude of the development in such a sensitive area that they downgraded the 2012 submission from 521 homes to 365. They questioned whether effective screening could minimise environmental impact and recommended the inclusion of a hotel in order to bolster the supposed economic arguments of the development case. Even this was done, I feel, with something of a heavy heart under local Tory pressure. CGI wheeled out their consultants - BNP Paribas - who said "we can't make money on this - we need to build all over the bloody place" or words to that effect. This argument was ridiculed by CPRE and their consultants.
I won't go on forever. Our councillors overrode their planning officers. CPRE appealed. The High Court ruled in DDC's favour but with leave to appeal again. The Law Lords (Supreme Court) upheld the new appeal unanimously. If you read the judgment, it is unusually critical of DDC's processes.
So where are we now? Well CGI is a changing beast. Their public mouthpiece, Mr Prince, is no longer a board member according Companies House records. At the helm appears to be a chap by the name of Glenn Dickel who is a "management consultant" whose place of residence is Cambodia. Yet they continue to make public claims about their interest in and care for the people of Dover.
I have no idea why DDC have spent significant amounts of taxpayers money pursuing this through the courts. The Farthingloe Valley is a great natural asset and once it is gone it can never be reclaimed.
I'm equally concerned about the way certain councillors overrode their planning officers recommendations in favour or an organisation which gives the impression of having our MP amongst others in its pocket.
The result of the re-submitted planning application (I won't say new) will be very interesting. We have a situation here where a vast amount of money has been borrowed by speculators who want to benefit financially from destroying a beautiful part of East Kent. Their justification for this is economic benefit for the community ("building the houses we all need etc ". ) It's critical case but I really do not believe that those councillors who have got us into this situation can feel anything other than shame.
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Guest 2525- Registered: 19 Mar 2018
- Posts: 11
It's a long story how it all happened and one that would blow the normal persons mind .... Christopher seymour-prosser was my father ... I know every in and out to how it all came about and who is involved .... Yes I could have benefited but have also been ripped by those holding the cards ... I suppose it was all a little underhanded by my father and the others. now after his passing the others have showed their colours aswell ... but it is what it is ... sorry to have stirred some stuff but it will make me laugh if they loose ... put it this way they should all be in jail but what I know will not help you guys getting planning rejected as it will take years to come out in the wash .... but hat off to you all and good luck ....
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
There are members of the public that support the plans ,with me being one of them,when a cllr I did say we need uptown homes for the well off, because we need the cash they would bring to Dover a few big house,s would be for the area, and also there is room at farthingloe for some good housing where the old huts were,in return we have been told that if the plans go a head, all the good sites will be done up and retain E/H will never do them up and the groups do not have that kind of cash also a nice hotel could be put up there,all this would open up the great history sites up there .
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Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 6,018
You are out of touch .They are building large houses at Whitfield .Did you get a ride in a helicopter??
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ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
#485 - I'm sorry but you're missing the point. You may support the proposed development, I may be against it. That's fine - we're all entitled to our opinions.
This court case was lost because our elected councillors (or at least some of them) decided to overrule their own professional planners and grant approval for a project ridiculously out of proportion with Farthingloe's status as being of outstanding natural beauty. The Law Lords have ruled that decision illegal. More of the political shenanigans are emerging now.
I will always rue the loss of that lovely valley if the worst happens. But if the whole area is concreted over because of greed for profit and political influence then it will be, in my opinion, a planning and local government scandal.
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Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 6,018
Post 487: I agree.Our taxes should not be used to keep fighting this ruling.
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,696
Some light reading for you all from a fairly quick look at the interwebs
thanetstrife.blogspot.com/2008/04/
thanetstrife.blogspot.com/2010/03/tough-recession-for-china-gateway.html
seems reasonably well researched stuff and perhaps helps fill in some background for some
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Judith Roberts- Registered: 15 May 2012
- Posts: 637
I am sure there is a demand for large family homes in Dover town. Whitfield should be an option not the only option for people with money. Why do people assume all poorer people must live on the town and better off types have to live in the suburbs. Personally I want to live within easy walking distance of the sea, shops and other facilities.
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
489 - Neither link works for me, Ross. Usual "page not found" result. Thanks anyway.
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
Since posting the above, it does appear that one URL still exists if entered directly in the address bar. The second one of the two. It makes interesting reading and kind of confirms Humbert's summary earlier.
Thanks for the information. I would dearly love to get to the bottom of the relationship between this transitory bunch of so-called business men and our esteemed local Tories. I will keep on trying if only for the sake of the land around me.
Pablo- Registered: 21 Mar 2018
- Posts: 614
My personal view is that the two most stupid ‘regeneration’ decisions made in recent years are the DWDR and St James’. If a couple of hundred high class flats with parking had been part of each development then a big chunk of the development costs of both sites would have been recouped and lots of spending power introduced into the town centre. Examples where this has been done and has regenerated a dying town centre are 1. Leamington Spa where the Royal Priors shopping mall has expensive flats above. Many locals moaned before it was built but it has truly regenerated the town centre with lots of butchers, fishmongers, greengrocers arty farty shops etc springing up and flourishing around it. A 50 sqm shop in that area now costs over £30k a year in rent (and they are happy to pay it) and 2. Brighton Marina where there are lots of new properties, many with their own moorings. Why can’t this have happened in Dover?
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Judith Roberts- Registered: 15 May 2012
- Posts: 637
Leamington and particularly Brighton are much larger than Dover. However maybe the proposed flats in Waterloo Crescent will help. No sign of any building work there. I thought work was starting in May.
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Pablo- Registered: 21 Mar 2018
- Posts: 614
Yes Leamington is bigger than Dover but that didn’t stop its town centre becoming semi-derelict.
Regarding the Cambridge Terrace flats, if you read the grant of permission letter it sets out conditions which have to be fulfilled before any work starts.
Namely: 5 Prior to the commencement of works the details of mechanical ventilation or flues to be installed including location, dimensions, colour and material shall be submitted to and approved in writing by the Local Planning Authority and thereafter shall be carried out in accordance with the approved details.
a) Details of mechanical ventilation or flues to be installed including location, dimensions, colour and material.
b) 1:20 scale sections of the external railings their junction to and their relationship with the historic features.
Reason: In the interest of the listed building.
Another way in which the DDC planning officers can delay the start of a very worthwhile development in order to show how powerful they are. They even insisted that the chain link fencing to be erected around the new allotment plots in Elvington must be green and insisted on receiving samples for approval. Nothing can be done before these samples have been approved by DDC apparatchiks. This site is behind a row of council houses for goodness’ sake!
ray hutstone, Brian Dixon, Ross Miller and
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Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,696
Try just copy paste this
http://thanetstrife.blogspot.com/2008/04/china-gateway-who-are-gcp-and-what-do_30.html
Probably my mistake for missing off the
http:// from the beginning of the link
Also look at the side bar as there is plenty more there about CGI
ray hutstone likes this
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Button
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,028
I suspect it must be a hard life being a DDC Planning Officer. One minute being seen as a CPRE lackey, then judged as a bastion for AONBs against the evil CGI and one's own political "masters", and then it's back to getting in the way of re-using a Grade 2 listed terrace. Probably all before lunch.
In the face of this, lesser mortals would agonise over whether to have coffee or tea, still or sparkling water at planning meetings; not the Officers from Hellfire Corner - keep calm, serve vinegar and hack everyone off. Job done!
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(Not my real name.)
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
#496 Thank you, Ross. As ever, history adds perspective to our current situation.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,860
I wonder in all of this who will be the actual winners
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Guest 2525- Registered: 19 Mar 2018
- Posts: 11
#499 maureen seymour-prosser and humbert mozzi will walk away with multi millions if planning goes through as for cgi it only exists to pay the isreal discount bank back and they will not recover all