Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
13 October 2009
13:1530358The Czech president may yet succeed in holding up the Lisbon Treaty long enough for us to get our referendum.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article6871365.ece
An almost heroic last stand by the President who must under massive pressure by pannicky EU officials.
Let us wish him well.....
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
13 October 2009
17:0730372I think you will find that even the Conservatives BarryW are slipping away from this referendum idea the closer they get to power. I know saying this to you about the Conservatives is like teaching my grandmother to suck eggs. There is little doubt here in the UK that people would vote NO in a referendum on the treaty but what a shambles that would bring. Even some of your fellow Conservatives last week were saying...
....Look we're already in, lets make it work as withdrawal is not an option.
Being in opposition is a deliciously soft option, you can be against that, complain about this, call for a resignation here, condem such an initiative over there...but once one gets ones hands on the reins of power a whole new dose of rigidity hits the thinking.
Guest 686- Registered: 5 May 2009
- Posts: 556
13 October 2009
17:5830376But withdrawal IS an option; just not a very popular one with MPs of either of the main parties. My main fear is of becoming a member of a United States of Europe - something that the people of this country don't want and haven't voted for.
Brown promised a referendum and has renagued on that promise. Cameron has said that the people will get their chance to vote on the Lisbon Treaty, or is he, too, going to push that aside and just "go with the flow"? I hope not.
Phil West
If at first you don't succeed, use a BIGGER hammer!!
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
13 October 2009
18:0130377PaulB - I disagree with you DC is committed against the Lisbon Treaty and if it is not ratified when elected then there will be a referendum and that will signal the end of that, because DC will not buckle under for another referendum like the Irish did. You are right a referndum will be won by the No vote and what a satisfying vote that will be.
It would be politically unacceptable for him to do otherwise (even ignoring his strong convictions against it).
If the damn thing is ratified then we will have a different ball game totally. It will be law and the only options will be in, out all together, or a fundamental re-negotiation. He should play things diplomatically at first regarding a re-negotiation but if the rest are not willing to budge then we must totally gum up the whole rotten EU edifice.
Personally I would like to see us out and have hopes that in the latter case of the Lisbon Treaty being ratified we will be on our way out.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
13 October 2009
18:0930379what would be the problem with us just having a free trade treaty with the eu like the swiss?
there is no way that eu businesses would cease to trade with us.
at the end of the day, if the product, price and delivery time are right, companies will buy.
as an addendum, i doubt that david cameron really knows what to do at this stage, he is being pushed and pulled within his party, and will end up upsetting a sizeable number of people, whatever route he chooses.
13 October 2009
18:1330381Exactly. And we would be freer to make British and Irish choices rather than having to buy EU.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
13 October 2009
18:2930386Actually howard, the Party is pretty much at one with the Eurosceptic line, not too much pulling and pushing. The Pro-EU types and few and far between these days. The balance has swung a long way since the Major years.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
13 October 2009
19:2030392mmm debateable choise.either a, vote yes and get it over and done with,or b,vote no with a long heated debate to follow.either way were knackerd.the country as a whole is a nation of ditherers and no nothings.the queastion is when is the goverment going to sit down and tell us as straight as possable the pros and cons of the deal,and thats without adding scaremongering and added bullcarp.
Guest 686- Registered: 5 May 2009
- Posts: 556
15 October 2009
16:5430531My view on this is that this country has two options; all the way in, or all the way out. Any sort of halfway house seems a mockery. Personally I think I'm of the "all the way out" school and a trading partnership as suggested by Howard.
Phil West
If at first you don't succeed, use a BIGGER hammer!!
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
15 October 2009
17:0130533quite a ludicrous situation at the moment with the czech president holding the key to the lisbon treaty.
he is getting put under a lot of pressure by eu leaders like sarkozy and merkel.
the joke is the czech president is unelected, he is chosen by the country's mp's, so we have a situation where the unelected bosses in brussels decide our democrcy.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
15 October 2009
17:0130534along with an unelected president.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
15 October 2009
17:0630537sounds like the hocky coky phil.i personly am an in man myself.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
15 October 2009
17:0730538Whats the cost to the UK of withdrawing?
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
15 October 2009
17:09305411 trillon squid,the benifit of staying in is we get 2 trillion squid a year in our pockets.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
15 October 2009
17:0930542BRIAN
These are the questions that need serious thought before we make our mind up
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
15 October 2009
17:1130543i am being serious here kieth.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
15 October 2009
17:1330545The latest figures are that it costs us £40million per day to remain in the EU.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
15 October 2009
17:2430546nd zilch to withdrw from it.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
15 October 2009
17:3030547There is indeed a phallacy about so called 'costs of withdrawal' dishonest scare stories Europhiles like to tell to keep us all in line.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
15 October 2009
17:4030552a bit like yours about staying in then barryw.