Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,865
I hope we never get to that stage
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Button
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,033
I don't see why a second referendum is appropriate. The question put in the last, advisory, referendum was straightforward: do you wish to leave or remain in the EU? The majority of those who were enfranchised and who expressed an opinion answered - leave. HM Government is spending a deal of effort to reflect the majority vote but we haven't left yet. The other option is for Parliament to disregard the advice and remain in the EU.
So a second referendum is at best premature. If we must have one, then have one - but after Parliament has completed one of the two options in its gift.
Jan Higgins and Captain Haddock like this
(Not my real name.)
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
button moon, two things why we need a second referendum, but mind you the questions on the first where ok until,
1, lies, more lies and dam lies.
2,so far government have made a large cock up so far.
so a second referendum would clarify with true facts not fiction in or out.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,865
Brian;
the Leave/remain camps both ran a campaign that was questionable
and instead of using it to inform
it was abused.
No doubt if this, or any other Govt(should it change)
go down that road, I'm sure the same kind of campaigns will be mounted.
like Howard says though do we keepvoting till we get the result required?
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Rather optimistic to think that the PM would give MPs the chance to vote when she doesn't even listen to Ministers.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/17/mps-brexit-deadlock-vote-greg-clark-parliamentBob Whysman
- Registered: 23 Aug 2013
- Posts: 1,934
Do nothing and nothing happens.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
profits of doom howard, and there is 3 more lurking in the back ground to jump in for the kill.
Weird Granny Slater
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 7 Jun 2017
- Posts: 3,008
As far as I can establish, this 'advisory' bit appears only on a briefing paper to MPs. Call me Jesuitical, call me casuistical, but while there may be nothing in the 2015 Act itself to say that the referendum result is binding, neither is there anything in it to say that it is not. In other words, the Act is not explicit on the referendum's constitutional status. And MPs voted for the Act, not the briefing paper. My guess is that the briefing paper only made a public appearance post factum. But all that's largely irrelevant anyway, since there was nothing on the ballot paper about it, and I don't remember it's featuring in the debates, so most voters (myself included) would have understood that, whatever the outcome, the result would determine the government's course of action. It would seem rather pointless if all the huff and puff, ire, claim and counter-claim, big red buses, painful fence-sitting, expenditure (legal or illegal), family break-ups, political fallouts, then endless 'negotiations' were only a prelude to our being told it was just an opinion-tester anyway. The referendum established the principle of an EU exit; the fact that the practice of doing so has been such an embarrassing Tory shambles is another matter. (Unless, of course, you see this as a calculated process by Remain elites and alt staters to appear to try to get us out while doing everything behind the scenes to keep us in.) It's up to government to bring it about: we've already been asked.
Button likes this
'Pass the cow dung, my dropsy's killing me' - Heraclitus
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Merry Christmas to our PM.
Bob Whysman- Registered: 23 Aug 2013
- Posts: 1,934
Do nothing and nothing happens.
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
# 3007 "'Tis a plague of our time when a madman leads the blind".
Captain Haddock
- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,987
BBC News (UK)
✔
@BBCNews
UK PM Theresa May says #Brexit debate will be held week beginning 7 January 2019, with meaningful vote by MPs the following week
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Captain Haddock wrote:BBC News (UK)
✔
@BBCNews
UK PM Theresa May says #Brexit debate will be held week beginning 7 January 2019, with meaningful vote by MPs the following week
Unless it looks like the vote will not please the PM.
Paul Watkins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 9 Nov 2011
- Posts: 2,226
If I read the latest info correctly. The Common Transit Convention has been agreed between UK & EU with or without a deal on Brexit. If so any tariffs/ declarations due will be at destination not at ports . In this case if I understand correctly no port disruption & no reason for Operation Stack & it’s successor name other than in other circumstances . I’m sure the experts on the Forum will correct me if the interpretation is wrong.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,987
The UK has negotiated an agreement to stay in the Common Transit Convention (CTC) even if there is no Brexit deal between the two sides. This means that goods can continue to be transported freely between the UK and the EEA with customs declarations and import duties only being paid when the goods arrive at their final destination. It is particularly important for the Republic of Ireland which transports the majority of its exports to the EU across the UK “land bridge”.
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
ha ha, labour have motioned a vote of no confidance in the house today. that's as of today.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,033
The CTC news is long-awaited and marvellous. Common Transit allows goods to go from departure to destination without payment of Customs dues, clearance taking place at either end. It also doubles as a safety and security declaration. It is, in effect, a passport for road haulage, especially across land boundaries. CTC is not an EU institution, although the EU is a club member, as are the EFTA States, Turkey and 2 of the Balkan States. What it isn't is a panacea...
- it's still a Customs declaration where none exists currently, so someone has to complete it
- it requires a financial guarantee (for which financial institutions charge) and the future volume of goods means existing ones are not big enough
- it doesn't help with EU controls at Calais etc on UK "meat"/POAO
- it doesn't, of itself, do away with the EU's 2 hours advance warning for safety and security
- it requires the club member whose territory is being entered into to "clock" each Transit declaration and, worst of all
- its use is not currently mandatory.
One would expect UK exports to be covered by Transit (in order to go into and beyond France), but the ferry operators will still have to check. Coming the other way, it is entirely possible that EU exports will use the EU export regime to get their goods to Calais etc, from which point on they become the UK's problem.
So there's still work and innovation and pump-priming to be done before M20 queues and the spectres of clearance in the Eastern Docks and consignment-level ferry freight manifests stop keeping practitioners awake at nights.
ray hutstone and howard mcsweeney1 like this
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