Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,821
I have just seen an interesting summing up of the Brexit situation by John Sergeant on Breakfast. To briefly paraphrase it is because it is seen as Mrs May's deal rather than the Government's deal.
Anyone who wants to see it on catch-up it was about 9.12
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
SWWood- Location: Dover
- Registered: 30 May 2012
- Posts: 261
ray hutstone wrote:As the article implies, we are in this position because article 50 was prematurely invoked and then slavishly support by our so-called opposition. Had Corbyn had the perspicacity and strength to stand up to this headlong rush in the first place, then there's a good chance that we would not be in this stasis now.
It was, of course, Jeremy Corbyn himself who demanded Article 50 be invoked the day after the referendum. That really sums up the whole mess. Theresa May will (deservedly) be criticised for invoking article 50 when she did, but that decision came against a backdrop of her opponents in Parliament, in her own party, in the media and indeed the general public, pushing her to get on with Brexit. No-one was seriously advocating doing whatever was required to get the best deal, however long it takes. The pressure was on to get it done quickly. Listening to people complaining about being bored with Brexit suggest it still is. Unfortunately we will live with the consequences of our impatience.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Courtesy of the Telegraph.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
5 cabinet members now favour a second Referendum, Tony Blair demands one and Nigel Farage. is mobilising the troops to be ready for one. The PM has ruled it out completely so it looks like it will happen which would give our politicians a handy get out of jail card and can then blame us for what happens afterwards.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,865
I hope it doesn't go to second vote
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Weird Granny Slater
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 7 Jun 2017
- Posts: 3,008
Re post #2962. If I remember correctly, Cameron promised to invoke A50 immediately on a Leave decision, then jumped out of the pram with his toys. Subsequently the Tory leadership election was partly fought on how quickly a contender would do an A50. The EU were keen too, as they knew a hurry-up would be to their advantage. JC's no guiltier in this respect than the rest of the political class. His major failure has been in not advancing a Left defence of an EU exit, and this has allowed the ERG and other nuts to claim it as their baby.
I note Ivan Rogers quickly tires of the footballing metaphors, but perhaps golf's more appropriate to May's negotiating ability anyway: while she kitted out for a 9-hole pitch and putt, the EU were not only equipped for the full round, but laid out the course (rough, bunkers and all) and even had a man at the 19th.
'Pass the cow dung, my dropsy's killing me' - Heraclitus
Captain Haddock
- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,987
Weird Granny Slater wrote:His major failure has been in not advancing a Left defence of an EU exit, and this has allowed the ERG and other nuts to claim it as their baby.
Correct.
As soon as the referendum was over, every MP who voted for it should have swung behind the result.
That was the promise and a lot of the behaviour we've seen instead over the past 2 yrs has done huge, avoidable damage.
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
Incorrect. The Referendum Act was passed on the basis that it was purely advisory. The wording actually states that there is no role in the British constitution for a legally binding plebiscite. It is quite possible for any MP to have taken an ambivalent stance between passing the original act and rushing into a precipitous course of action as a result of the outcome.
Brian Dixon likes this
Weird Granny Slater- Location: Dover
- Registered: 7 Jun 2017
- Posts: 3,008
Ray, consultative or not, had voting gone the other way we would have expected the UK to remain in the EU, and we would NOT have expected 'ambivalent' MPs to advocate beginning the process of leaving.
Reginald Barrington and Captain Haddock like this
'Pass the cow dung, my dropsy's killing me' - Heraclitus
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
Farage even went on record shortly before the date of the referendum as saying that, in the event of him being narrowly on the losing side, he would campaign immediately for a second vote.
However, this is not really my point. The 2015 act was first and foremostly an attempt by Cameron to succeed where Thatcher, Hague and Major had all failed - to dispel the knuckledraggers (Major's bastards, Hammond's extremists) for once and for all. Like many others, I doubt that it would ever have gained parliamentary approval had it been defined as binding and unequivocal. Regardless of whether you're a leaver or a remainer, you cannot expect MPs to be shackled to the fact that they voted to pass the act, as a basis for their subsequent decisions. Neither logical or reasonable, WGS, in my humble opinion.
Brian Dixon and howard mcsweeney1 like this
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
It is all a bit nebulous if you will pardon the term, it was clear before the Referendum that the result would be purely advisory. Call me Dave promised to go with the result come what may(no pun intended) but he jumped ship immediately the result was known. My view is that it would be dangerous to even have a second Referendum let alone revoke article 50.
The far right would love the opportunity to take to the streets in protest and going by comments from followers of Gerard Batten and Ann Marie Waters it wouldn't just be placards and chants, I believe many are studying French phrase books in readiness.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
howard, keuth a second referendum is needed for the people to take control of government failures. if result dictaits revoking article 50 would be an option.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Social stability must take precedence in my opinion Brian. Going off at a tangent there was a rally for "Leave means leave" yesterday, they must have taken ages thinking that one up. Nigel, Kate Hoey, Jacob and the bloke who runs Wetherspoons waving pieces of cardboard with slogans on, all upmarket stuff. There was one photo of Jacob and Nigel sitting next to each other looking very uncomfortable, I thinks that Jacob sees Nigel as the sort of chap he would hand his coat to then collect at the end of the evening.
Jan Higgins likes this
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,865
That's not democracy brian
I presume you were replying to me?
Bob Whysman likes this
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Bob Whysman
- Registered: 23 Aug 2013
- Posts: 1,934
Brian Dixon wrote:howard, keuth a second referendum is needed for the people to take control of government failures. if result dictaits revoking article 50 would be an option.
Imagine the queues at your local supermarket Brian if we carry the logic of having a recount because you don’t like the result into our daily lives!
“Excuse me checkout person, could you please run all these items through the scanner again until you agree with what I think is good for me and my wallet?”
Reginald Barrington, Jan Higgins and Button like this
Do nothing and nothing happens.
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,821
Can I suggest that next time there is an election if our chosen party does not win we all clamour for another go.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
yes keith to you and howard. its called democractic way to go about things. we are not in a communist state yet evan though it feels like it some times.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
bob, when I shop at the supermarket there are no queues, they are all still in bed or getting there little rug rat darlings ready for school
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
good idea jan, lets make it composlary.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
High quality debate at the "Leave means leave" rally.
Brian Dixon likes this
