Button
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,027
Good news - looks like we won't be intercepting Italian pizzas for another year:
https://www.grantthornton.co.uk/insights/prepare-for-full-customs-controls-for-trade-with-the-eu/. It seems to me that the real question is why bother then?
(Not my real name.)
Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,295
Blimey. Frost has gone. Seatbelts on, folks.
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
Neil Moors wrote:Blimey. Frost has gone. Seatbelts on, folks.
Despite all the mutterings about tax rises and coercive Covid restrictions, I can't help but wonder whether being told in no uncertain terms by Biden not to bugger about with N.Ireland might have had something to do with it. He's got his peerage. He knows he can't do what Laughing Boy wants him to, so get out now while the going's good.
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
Next time you hear people talking about the UK being the fastest growing economy in the G7, take a look at this analysis from The Economist. And then reflect on the economic storm that will hit households in the new year.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
Best explanation I've read yet but it's still all nebulous.
EU exporters of cheese, car parts and other goods are facing a mountain of red tape to continue sales to Britain after 1 January once thrice-delayed post-Brexit checks and controls are finally implemented.
They had been due to come into force on 1 January 2021 but were pushed back to July, then to October and finally to January 2022, with a further set of controls due six months later in the coming July.
In another twist just before Christmas, the British government announced a carve out for the Republic of Ireland, saying the checks would be delayed for goods crossing the Irish Sea while talks over the Northern Ireland protocol continued.
The British government is now confident there will be no further delays to the new controls on incoming goods, which will create a slew of old-school jobs in freight, customs and food standards not seen since the single market came into force in 1993. But what exactly is changing?
What happens on 1 January 2022?
Complicated paperwork will be required by the UK tax authorities for all imports from the EU. Traders will no longer be allowed to defer completion of customs declarations for HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC), a measure that was introduced to cope with the disruption of Brexit.
How will this paperwork be submitted?
Exporters will have to “pre-lodge” the paperwork with the correct authorities themselves or through an agent before their goods are loaded on to a ferry or train at Calais or other entry points. “While many UK hauliers are well prepared for this change, we suspect many EU hauliers are not,” said HMRC’s permanent secretary, Jim Harra.
The carriers will be obliged to have records of the goods to allow HMRC to decide whether they will be free to go after arriving in Dover, Holyhead and other ports.
The paperwork doesn’t stop there. Declarations in relation to the rules of origin must be completed to determine whether tariffs are applicable or not. EU suppliers of agri-food products into Britain will also have to pre-notify the authorities of any exports.
What about 1 July 2022?
The final set of controls on products of animal and plant origin will come into force on this date, with export health certificates and phytosanitary certificates required for all consignments.
Physical checks will take place on arrival, although these are likely to be random or determined by intelligence about the cargo. Safety and security declarations on imports will also be required.
Where will the checks take place?
HMRC has had considerable difficulties organising the sanitary and phytosanitary (SPS) control posts. During the summer it confirmed that it was dramatically reducing in size a planned facility close to the famous White Cliffs of Dover, with most paperwork now expected to be checked at its Ashford lorry park instead.
Dover Port Health Authority announced at the beginning of December it was to move to a new facility in the nearby village of Whitfield. The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs has confirmed this is one of three potential SPS sites. Another will open at Ashford and a third site in Kent is still to be identified, a spokesperson said.
Will it all go smoothly?
By HMRC’s own calcuations, the number of customs declarations needing to be processed will rise from an estimated 48m a year to 250m now that they are required on goods arriving from all 27 EU states.
Harra told the parliamentary public accounts committee in November that the “biggest risk” was lack of readiness among EU traders, especially small to medium sized companies.
EU traders may experience the same kind of Brexit shock suffered by the Cheshire cheesemaker Simon Spurrell in January when he was left with a £250,000 hole in his export business as new requirements effectively closed down his retail sales to the continent.
Harra said HMRC was writing monthly to 14,000 EU haulage firms to make sure they were ready, with information booklets on the new rules provided in multiple languages.
Although the UK has been divorced from the EU for a year, the delays in applying import controls may have left some in the single market with the impression that they don’t exist.
The added cost of administration could encourage some traders to quit the British market altogether.
“Brexit red tape is an extreme interruption to what was otherwise a world-class logistics operation that was pin sharp,” said John McGrane, director general of the British Irish Chamber of Commerce.
“Many businesses might argue the UK has had six years to prepare for this and why aren’t all these checks online?”
Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,027
Hm. Similar in many ways to life before 1.1.1993 then, but (reading between the lines) with 2 exceptions: because there is no "er, hang on a minute" space after discharge in the UK
- everything must be declared before loading in France
- all declarations must be cleared during the crossing.
Good luck to ports/terminals on both sides with that then! In fact, given that the latter cannot be guaranteed, maybe UK import clearance has to take place before loading in France - think I've seen powers to that effect. Island mentality gone rogue, it sounds like; just mandate Transit and sort it all out inland.
(Not my real name.)
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,796
All the fuss over some extra paperwork, it makes me wonder how on earth anything was imported or exported years ago prior to us joining the EU...........could it be the high up politicians were not trying to point score and make life difficult.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,027
I see that the Daily Star thinks the new rules due to be introduced from 1.1.2022 are EU ones:
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/warning-frozen-food-shortages-on-25812619. So we weren't Ready on Day One and now the EU gets the credit for us Taking Back Control!
Nice picture of trucks at Dover en route to France; not sure what that's got to do with anything.
(Not my real name.)
Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,027
Jan Higgins wrote:All the fuss over some extra paperwork, it makes me wonder how on earth anything was imported or exported years ago prior to us joining the EU...........could it be the high up politicians were not trying to point score and make life difficult.
The worry is basically what to do with the truck if it hasn't got the paperwork (and how long does it take to find out whether it does or doesn't), given that whilst the number of trucks has doubled since 1993, space to hold them within ports has melted away. The (current) politicians, for once, don't really come into it, other than with their fascination for doing things at the border.
(Not my real name.)
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
Jan Higgins wrote:All the fuss over some extra paperwork, it makes me wonder how on earth anything was imported or exported years ago prior to us joining the EU...........could it be the high up politicians were not trying to point score and make life difficult.
Ah yes. The good old days of T Forms and carnets. Armies of freight import and export clerks just to ensure our importers and exporters could do business with their nearest markets. And all those lovely customs clearance delays when the drivers could sit around in the Easter Docks for hours just having fun.
I do love a bit of nostalgia. How stupid we all were way back to think that joining the single market and customs union would be of benefit.
Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,027
ray hutstone wrote:Ah yes. The good old days of T Forms and carnets. Armies of freight import and export clerks just to ensure our importers and exporters could do business with their nearest markets. And all those lovely customs clearance delays when the drivers could sit around in the Easter Docks for hours just having fun.
I do love a bit of nostalgia. How stupid we all were way back to think that joining the single market and customs union would be of benefit.
Me too! It was amazing how quickly one could completely fill the inbound lorry park and roads with a simple bijou mistakette on the computer selection parameters! Lorry drivers did get grumpy about delays but we had a secret weapon in Mary, an ex Wren PO whose catchphrase was basically "oh dear, that's such a shame!" After about 5 minutes of hearing this repeated over and over (genuinely meant but about as useful as a chocolate teapot), they nearly always gave up and went back to their cab.
ray hutstone likes this
(Not my real name.)
How I Wrote Elastic Man- Registered: 5 Dec 2020
- Posts: 105
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
Yep. And it's started. Good job freight movements are relatively quiet at this time of year.
The government is being urged to quickly get a grip of teething problems with a new post-Brexit IT system that has left lorries unable to get into the UK.
Jon Swallow, a logistics boss with nearly 40 years of industry experience, said one of his HGVs had been sat at France's Dunkirk Port for three days as of Wednesday morning due to issues with the Goods Vehicles Movement System (GVMS). Imports from the European Union now need to be processed using the GVMS.
The checks, which HMRC brought into effect on 1 January, are just the first tranche of post-Brexit rules being phased in over the course of 2022, with physical inspections not beginning until 1 July.
Lorry drivers are asked to submit information about the goods they are bringing into the UK from the EU, in exchange for what is effectively a barcode allowing them to cross the border.
However, firms have reported drivers being denied permission to make the trip after having their reference codes rejected by the system, or having struggled to upload their information.
A spokesperson for HMRC, which handles post-Brexit administration at the border, said it was "aware of a small amount of user error issues with some of the new customs processes as traders and hauliers adjust to the new controls, which we expected and are addressing".
Swallow, who runs global logistics firm Jordon Freight, said it was not simply a case of "user error" — i.e traders not using the new system correctly — because government officials themselves have been unable to explain what's gone wrong.
“The delay isn’t the most frustrating thing. The frustration is that is nobody can tell us what the problem is," Swallow told PoliticsHome on Wednesday morning.
“We are asking technical questions, which at the moment they don’t have the answer to.”
Swallow, whose company specialises in European logistics, said he was unable to get onto the HMRC website when seeking assistance, and didn't get the information he needed from HMRC's customs helpline.
“We’ve done everything at our end but the problem has been unknown for a day and a half, and that’s hundreds to thousands lost earnings," he said.
Angelos Panayiotou, who runs Windfall Logistics, told Bloomberg on Tuesday that he received an error message from the GVMS which meant a shipment of iced tea headed for the UK was stranded in the EU, despite having uploaded the correct information.
“There’s no-one to go to help,” he told the publication. “You’ve just got drivers stuck at port, unable to move.”
Jenny Chapman, Labour's Shadow Cabinet Office Minister in the House of Lords, said the difficulties encountered by businesses trying to get goods into the UK was "yet another illustration of poor planning and incompetence by the Conservatives".
She told PoliticsHome: "The government thinks that all it has to do is say the words 'Get Brexit Done' — but it has no plan to make Brexit work.
"Labour would be working closely with our industries to tackle these challenges as we shape a new future outside of the EU."
Industry figures say they did not expect to get a clear picture of how new customs paperwork brought in a few days ago was affecting cross-border flow until later this month, as the volume of trade in the first week of the calendar year is lower than normal and difficult to draw conclusions from.
However, there have been warnings that the additional cost and complexity associated with getting goods into the UK will result in some European businesses deciding to ditch the market altogether, leading to reduced choice in British supermarkets.
Reginald Barrington
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 17 Dec 2014
- Posts: 3,227
Damn it no ice tea for a bit, that sucks! Bloody Brexit
Arte et Marte
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
The point being made is the cost to business, Reggie. Sorry about your iced tea, though. I'm more of an Earl Grey man myself.
Reginald Barrington- Location: Dover
- Registered: 17 Dec 2014
- Posts: 3,227
To a small number of businesses, but when have you heard of a new IT system running straight up without teething problems?
Arte et Marte
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
Reginald Barrington wrote:To a small number of businesses, but when have you heard of a new IT system running straight up without teething problems?
It's not new, Reggie. They've had over 5 years to get this right. And it's not a small number of businesses either. Regardless of whether the botched system eventually works, we will remain outside the customs union and single market with all its consequent costs until we get rid of these idiots and take steps to regain what we previously had. I'm guessing you've never been in business.
Reginald Barrington- Location: Dover
- Registered: 17 Dec 2014
- Posts: 3,227
Most of my post military life I have run businesses, and every business owner knows you have good and bad periods, and that some legislation benefits your business while others cost it, some times whole markets, but all the while it continues making profit you roll with it and adapt it to the current climate.
One I'm a minor investor in may close its doors to the EU later this year or early next, might close altogether if new markets cannot be found and developed.
How's the rejoin party doing in the polls currently?
Arte et Marte
Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,027
Reginald Barrington wrote:To a small number of businesses, but when have you heard of a new IT system running straight up without teething problems?
Never! Which was why, when UK customs computer systems were "at" Dover, we always elected to go first, reasoning that meant we'd get all the 24x7 assistance going since no-one could allow it to fail. Good policy actually, and I still recall with a chuckle being (falsely) accused of "denigrating the honourable profession of the British freight forwarder".
Personally, I suspect it's too early to tell; if things were already exceptionally bad, one of more of CoS, BPA, UKMPG, RHA, Logistics UK, PoD and Getlink would be squawking by now. Bottom-line, though, GVMS is unnecessary and, if it involves keying-in or verbally transferring long alphanumeric reference numbers, then it's prone to both keying errors and mis-hearing.
Reginald Barrington likes this
(Not my real name.)
