PatrickS
- Location: Marine Parade, Dover
- Registered: 19 Sep 2015
- Posts: 448
Button: Not sure I understand the Options you raise in the context of the points I was endeavouring to make.
The 'Agreement' is deliberately vague on solutions. The thorny issue of the ILB was something I deliberately did not attempt to address in my post. It is far too complicated an issue and requires much deeper considerations at this stage before trade talks have even begun, let alone the prickly issues of 'transitional arrangements'.
The points I was endeavouring to make were simply:
a) to document the dangers of any 'arrangement', 'agreement' or 'commitment' that you may agree to where you subsequently have no control over what happens next, leaving you with liabilities (present or future) that you cannot in any way foresee or change
and,
b) why the UK (the 'leaver') should be required to be the only one to come up with solutions when having quit the EU it is just as much in the other party's interest to have a positive input in finding a solution as it is ours - if the spirit of goodwill continues to prevail on both sides.
Apologies if I failed to make my points clear.
Button
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,028
Ah, gotcha! For my part, I still think there's a degree of wiggle room to be had!
(Not my real name.)
Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,295
I watched the Parliamentary session yesterday (I should get out more). The PM was agitated - she hates talking about the Ireland situation........which makes me feel the whole agreement is built on sand.
howard mcsweeney1 likes this
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
if it is,i hope its the sinking kind.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Courtesy of the Telegraph, Nigel seems to think we could leave in 15 months and not have severe problems.
Brexit will have to be fought all over again after the “great deception” of a transition deal pushing back the date of the UK-EU divorce, Nigel Farage said today in a fiery debate in the European Parliament. MEPs in Strasbourg were debating ahead of Friday’s Brussels summit where EU leaders will formally agree that Britain can move onto trade and transition talks after making “sufficient progress” on the financial settlement, citizens’ rights and Ireland. Theresa May asked for a transition deal of about two years in her Florence speech, which would mean Britain would not leave the EU until 2021. During that time it is expected Britain will pay into the EU Budget and observe EU law but lose its voting rights.
“I fear Brexit at some point in the future will need to be refought all over again,” said Nigel Farage, a MEP and former leader of the UK Independence Party. “We will effectively, once transition is granted, have left the EU at the end of March 2019 in name only,” he said, before suggesting a future British government could extend the terms to keep Britain in the EU’s single market and customs union.
Mrs May agreed a joint report with the European Commission on the three key issues last Friday morning, which was hailed as a long-awaited breakthrough in the Brexit talks.
“You managed to make a British prime minister leave Downing Street in the middle of the night, fly to Brussels and go and forge an agreement with unelected bureaucrats based in Brussels,” said Mr Farage, who described the £39 billion Brexit bill as "ludicrous". “It’s a form of ritual humiliation which she was prepared to put herself through. She has danced to your tune all the way through this. You must be very, very pleased indeed,” he told MEPs to laughter from his supporters.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
It seems to be set in stone now that the Tory rebels will help stuff Cruella in the vote later despite the usual bullying from the whips. Talking of whips our own Charlie was one and no doubt will vote the party line despite being shafted by the PM.
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,696
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,295
That was absolutely gripping stuff. A last minute Government concession rejected by the so called Tory Mutineetrs. As for Charlie, he abstained, which I was pretty impressed with as given the context, it amounts to the same thing as voting against the Government.
The best bit? watching Ministers now trying to convince anyone that will listen that nothing has changed, whilst at the same time the likes of Nadine Dorries and Tim Montgomery are going into meltdown.
Parliamentary geeks will knows that this was only the committee stage and much could change in the Report and Third reading stages, but for now, I am happy to see Parliament take back control in the latest chapter of the drama that is Brexit
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Our betters in the Commons reached the correct decision in my view and refused to be totally steam rollered into submission. It needs to be remembered that legally the Referendum result was only advisory not binding although it would take brave politicians to reverse the result.
This still has a long way to run, not only when both Irelands find out they may have been screwed but also 27 member states have to ratify any agreement between us an d the EU.
Weird Granny Slater
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 7 Jun 2017
- Posts: 3,003
Ross Miller likes this
'Pass the cow dung, my dropsy's killing me' - Heraclitus
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Love this barb from Charlie in the debate yesterday.
European Union (Withdrawal) Bill: Implementing the withdrawal agreement (13 Dec 2017)
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2017-12-13a.404.2&s=speaker%3A24777#g458.3
Charlie Elphicke: Looking at this matter independently, as one does
these days, it strikes me that my right hon. Friend’s argument raises
a serious question about why clause 9 needs to be in the Bill at all. We
are going to have a withdrawal agreement and implementation Bill, and if
the Government cannot say what it is that might be urgent, why should we
have this clause at all?
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
The "Mail" can always be relied on to give a considered response to a situation.
Guest 2388- Registered: 12 Nov 2017
- Posts: 60
yep, the Mail seems to have taken up the gauntlett from the Express, today's Ex. headline was very banal
fairly modest by the Mail tbh, I mean should at least have the words '******* traitor scum!' in there
Captain Haddock
- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,939
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
[QUOTE="Captain Haddock"]Brexit news. Are ALL Guardian readers irredeemably stupid?
Considering how many articles from there that you have posted here I feel obliged to agree.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Interesting piece as we vote in our MPs hoping that they will debate and vote with their conscience, now they castigated and even get death threats from people who don't have the nous to understand why their elected member voted the way he/she did.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/editorials/rebel-mps-theresa-may-government-brexit-daily-mail-a8111051.htmlCaptain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,939
howard mcsweeney1 wrote:[QUOTE="Captain Haddock"]
Considering how many articles from there that you have posted here I feel obliged to agree.
Unfortunately the mother of my children subscribes. She claims she can do the crossword. Examination of the week's recycling box suggests otherwise.
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Guest 1881- Registered: 16 Oct 2016
- Posts: 1,071
#1324 The Daily Mail is owned by Jonathan Harmsworth, 4th Viscount Rothermere.
[B]
In 2013, Private Eye reported that Viscount Rothermere falsely claims non-dom status, in order to avoid paying tax on his stately home, Ferne House. This move saves him several millions of pounds in tax annually. [/B] Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Harmsworth,_4th_Viscount_Rothermere
I would suggest that is the definition of a traitor.
Button likes this
Just because you don't take an interest in politics doesn't mean that politics won't take an interest in you. PERICLES.
Guest 2388- Registered: 12 Nov 2017
- Posts: 60
good piece, and it's funny that these lefty whiners don't give a jot for expats that live outside the EU- guess they view that part of the world as the barbarous lowlands inhabited by semi mongrel hordes or something
