Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
20 August 2010
22:3266405I did not say direct overseas funding,I said some where in both the plans oversea funding will be used.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,835
20 August 2010
22:3566406If this is to be inflicted on us, I prefer Charlie's version.
Has a purchase price been mentioned anywhere, in other words how many millions is it going to be sold for.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
20 August 2010
22:4566410Yes it is worth beween £1billion and £2billion if sold today but they will let it go for less just to get a quick sell and the members of the DHB will get a good pay off we have already been told how much.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
20 August 2010
23:5966420No Pat, the trustees under Charlie's scheme are Dover people not involved in the management team. You yourself could be a trustee.
Vic, the port is worth nowhere near £2b. That's like saying your 1965 Cortina is worth the same as a a brand new Mercedes.
PG.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 673- Registered: 16 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,388
21 August 2010
06:0266423QUOTE #91: "The DHB are proposing a sell-off of the port, probably to foreign capital. Charlie is proposing co-operative buy-out by the people of Dover. Can any of you Luddites out there tell the difference?" UNQUOTE
Not much of a response so far from the Luddite community. From my perspective, I would presume the people to whom you refer to be those who are advocating smashing up the current advanced legislative machinery whereby the Trust Port is owned by the nation and reinvests all profits in the continuous development of the port; and replacing it with the retrograde and inferior privatisation model which has so conspicuously failed to deliver in so many other similar cases.
Since you fall into this category yourself, you are clearly better placed than others to speculate on whether any of your fellow Luddites can tell the difference. If it is of any assistance to them, this is a summary of the difference between the two strategies in question:
DHB are the professionals who know all there is to know about operating a busy modern port and have spent years constructing a fully-costed comprehensive plan for the future as they see it. Love them or hate them, agree or disagree with what they propose, they are the experts and know what they are talking about. They have said from the start that they expect the financial backing to come from abroad. There can be no question that their plan is both feasible and fundable. The government has asked them to furnish additional details of their proposals and their plan would consequently appear to be the only one being given serious consideration.
Charlie is a tax lawyer and neophyte MP with no knowledge or experience of port operations who professed to be adamantly opposed to privatisation whilst seeking to be elected but has since produced an uncosted and nebulous plan which is laden with lofty and idealistic ambitions but short on the nitty gritty of committed financing and devoid of the longterm groundwork implicit in the DHB frontrunner.
Hope that helps and you get a good response.
21 August 2010
06:5066424Many good points as usual but my personal opinion is that at the present time there is no doubt that the port will be sold. If we stay as we are then Calais' new expansion will take all our business and the Town will be clogged up even more. T2 is essential and needed in some form - maybe that shpuld be examined as to costs needed but DHB has many land assets.
Thus the options are to give it all away and see what happens.
OR
hold on to the freehold and lease the operation. That way giving some flexibility for an unknown future and some control for the present.
I am concerned as a Dovorian and for the future of my children and grandchildren - I am afraid that politics and vested interest can obscure the important facts....
D
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
21 August 2010
07:3466425I think there are some very good points from all sides coming out. with 3main options coming out.
(1) Go it with the DHB and sell it off to anyone (And I think this is the way it will go.
(2) Go it with our MPs plan which will take longer to put together then the two years we have left and it has alot "IF" in it.
(3) Or my plan of wait for five years and see what happens to the market which as you know,I think the Port is going to have a few bad years with ending up one ferry company which will be PO. But what I think could be done that the mariner could be made bigger the Town makes more funding from that with the owners of boats spending real cash in our town,we only have to look at Ramsgate to see that their mariner is making alot of funding for the town,I feel Dover can make more cash out of that, and it would make more skilled jobs with all the repairs and upkeep of the boats in the mariner.As for the ferry companys it will find its own leval at some point.I feel we should not rush into anything at this time,as you know I am always rushing into things and later on found out I should have waited. And also the boat owners in the mariner some are locals but we get alot of overnight stayers or even afewdays they are spending in Dover.
Guest 697- Registered: 13 Apr 2010
- Posts: 622
21 August 2010
08:1966430I doubt concerns about national security would hold up any sale of the port to foreign interests, and in any case, if a foreign investor is prepared to put money into the port's development, why not? Previous governments didn't have any concerns about the Spanish owning our airports, and indeed P&O Ferries, is owned by Dubai Ports World.
Gatwick Airport was recently sold to an investment company that has attracted funding from a wide range of interests, and is currently embarking on a £1 billion investment programme. I'm sure there are many investors that would look upon the estimated £400 million cost of developing T2 as a good investment.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
21 August 2010
08:2466432If the port is sold off T2 might not go ahead it will be up to the new owners ,they have to pay for the port first that should be over £1billion I think they would then wait to see if it is needed but before that again they would need to see some good returns on the cash they have paid out already
Guest 697- Registered: 13 Apr 2010
- Posts: 622
21 August 2010
09:0366439Agreed, Vic, it will be up to the new owners. But they'll be looking to grow their investment by "adding value", and also becoming more efficient.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
21 August 2010
09:1366440some very good points raised here, vic's one about the marina is an important one.
as he says the one at ramsgate is a roaring success and brings a lot of money in, would be great if our one was enlarged encouraging more visitors. an impressive marina is an attraction for daytrippers also.
Guest 656- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 2,262
21 August 2010
09:2066442Ditto re Marina, makes a lot of sense
I bet Dubai Ports World are very interested in the Port of Dover!
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,701
21 August 2010
10:2766453I note a number of people keep quoting a figure of £1bn or more as the sale price of the port, however the only figures I have seen regarding the "price" for the sale of the port have been in the £350-500m range, of course I could well have missed a later valuation figure; so I was just wondering if someone could point me to the press report or press release that mentions this larger number.
There are numerous opportunities for any future operator of the port, whether that is the current DHB operation or a future purchaser/investor, as Vic points out there is significant opportunities connected to marina operations (for both the town and the port operator); there are also opportunities to exploited connected to the new generation of "super ferries" but that will require investment in new infrastructure, as David has said DHB has some substantial parcels of land that could be sold to fund development of the port or a new operator not bound by the charter could develop the land themselves etc.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
21 August 2010
10:3066455IF I decide to invest my money in the Peoples Port of Dover, the filthy lucre will come from my OFFSHORE bank account. Does that make me a JF?
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
21 August 2010
11:2066470Well thank you for your imput about the Mariner,DHB have said they can not put a sell price yet on the port,but when I asked them at a meeting and I said the Valuation would be over the £1billion mark, they agreed with that but could not say that amount is what they would get.We at UKIP also had a port valuation done and was told the the freehold price without anyties at all would be beween £1.500 billion and two £2billion but there must not be any ties at all.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
21 August 2010
11:3266475the price keeps going up, i think i will just take a 50% stake in it while it is only a billion quid.
could save me money in the future.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
21 August 2010
11:4166481It is all about what ties there are in place when and if the port goes up for sell,I think that DHB already have a buyer that is why they can say it will be sold by 2012,but with any ties the price of the port will go down and go down alot,that is to pay for the said ties.this just one good point why the port should not be sold off.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
21 August 2010
18:2066544DHB are I believe being advised by Maquarie, an Australian investment bank. Goldfield let the name slip during his 'presentation'. Given their track record I woud expect that a. they have buyers lined up and b. that the likely buyers are Asian sovereign wealth funds such as those of Singapore, China and Brunei.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
21 August 2010
19:4666559Well I told you so ,thank you Mr Garstin.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
21 August 2010
22:0166581Yes, Vic, and we all know that the status quo is not an option for the future. So it's a clear choice between the port being owned by a foreign government or being owned by a trust for the benefit of the people of Dover.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson