Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,865
No choice now
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
there is keith, become a member of a local country. ie French, belguim, dutch or german.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
yep facts of life, still looking out for that gezzer who hosted deal or no deal.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Courtesy of the Sunday Times.
Theresa May’s secret plan to secure a Brexit deal and win the backing of parliament can be revealed today. Senior sources say the prime minister has secured private concessions from Brussels that will allow her to keep the whole of Britain in a customs union, avoiding a hard border in Northern Ireland. They expect this to placate remainer Tories and win over some Labour MPs. And in a move that will appeal to Eurosceptics, May is also said to be on course to secure a political deal on a “future economic partnership” (FEP) with the European Union that will allow Britain to keep open the prospect of a free trade deal resembling that enjoyed by Canada.
The Sunday Times has been told that preparations for a final deal are far more advanced than previously disclosed and will lead to a document of 50 pages or more when it is published — not the vague, five-page plan many expect. Cabinet sources say parts of it “could have been written by Jacob Rees-Mogg”, the leader of the hardline Eurosceptics. A close aide of Michel Barnier, the EU negotiator, revealed a major concession on the Irish border during a private meeting in London last week. The EU now accepts that regulatory checks on goods can take place “in the market” by British officials, meaning they can be conducted at factories and shops rather than at the border.
Downing Street officials are desperate to see enough progress this week for the EU to announce a special summit later in November to agree the final details. May will discuss the proposals with her cabinet on Tuesday. Under the plans:
● The EU will write an all-UK customs deal into the legally binding withdrawal agreement so an EU-designed “backstop” treating Northern Ireland differently from the UK mainland is not required
● There will be an “exit clause” to convince Eurosceptics the UK will not be in it for ever
● The FEP will outline how a new trade deal would balance market access and border checks, making clear that a deal along the lines of the EU’s arrangement with Canada is still a possible outcome as is May’s Chequers plan for close alignment.
● Telling Brexiteer ministers that unless they support it, they will be personally responsible for causing a no-deal Brexit, which most regard as a potential disaster.
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
The inevitable BRINO is beginning to emerge.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
more uproar and back stabbing from within, useall suspects.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
There is a debate about us leaving the EU on Channel 4 at 8 PM, our Nigel has promised to give the "Remainers" a piece of his mind, hopefully he can spare it.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
I see the knives are out then, caught in a tight, dark corner.
Guest 1571- Registered: 24 Aug 2015
- Posts: 71
Lets be-honest about what the outcomes of brexit were going to be:
We remain with the good deal we have now and the powers to veto and the ability to vote on policies with MEPs and the protects against corperate interests such as human rights.
We remain economically in the EU and lose all the having to follow the human rights stuff and not exploit workers. The thing that the elites want.
We leave with no deal, the elites will protect themselves by moving their business and money, the people will suffer the effects.
So, instead of the conversation being what mandate would we have for our democratic relationship with Europe...ie what polices we should support and what policies we should veto...we instead have a conversation, that divided the public, over whether to leave or not...something whose outcome benefits the elites either way.
youtube.com/chazwoldalmighty
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
The current conversation (if you're referring to the one between the UK and the EU, rather than the one on here) is not about our democratic relationship with Europe. That will come later. At the moment, all they are discussing is the terms of the "divorce".
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
According to Charlie they owe us £10 billion but I really Barnier & co going along with that one. Meanwhile the PM is getting another in cabinet this morning.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Courtesy of the Telegraph
Theresa May was tonight accused of secretly lining up a Brexit deal behind the backs of her Cabinet after a leaked memo revealed detailed plans for selling the deal to the public. A three-week strategy leading up to a parliamentary vote includes daily “themed” announcements, a major speech by the Prime Minister and a televised interview with David Dimbleby. The document, which was seen by the BBC and appears to have been written in the past week, proposes a vote on the deal on Nov 27, adding to suspicions from ministers that Mrs May, desperate for a deal before Christmas, was rushing into an agreement with Brussels. It came after a Cabinet meeting at which senior ministers warned Mrs May not to be panicked into signing a deal that would give Brussels the power to keep Britain in an EU customs union.
The Cabinet was told the Brexit negotiations had moved a “major step” forward and Brussels was willing to discuss ways of ending the impasse over the Irish border. But Sajid Javid, the Home Secretary, and Jeremy Hunt, the Foreign Secretary, were among those who urged caution over any solution that would prevent Britain from unilaterally ending any “backstop” arrangement over Northern Ireland. Brexiteers said the leaked memo added to suspicions that Mrs May had already agreed a deal and that an ongoing row over Irish border had been “fabricated” for appearances’ sake.
A government spokesman claimed the document, which appeared to have been drawn up by an official in the Brexit department, “doesn’t represent the Government’s thinking”. The memo assumed a proposed deal would be put to the Cabinet and that Dominic Raab, the Brexit Secretary, would announce “a moment of decisive progress” on Thursday. Mrs May would then claim the Government had “delivered on the referendum” in a speech at the CBI on Nov 19, the same day Mr Raab would announce the proposed deal to Parliament.
World leaders, including Shinzo Abe, Japan’s prime minister, would be lined up to tweet support for the deal, followed by a week of themed media events, including a visit by Mrs May to Northern Ireland on Nov 24, the day the DUP holds its conference in Belfast. The memo says Parliament’s “meaningful vote” on the deal would be held on Nov 27, with MPs told in capital letters: “Historic moment, put your own interests aside, put the country’s interests first and back this deal.”
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
chalk and cheese H.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Matthew Parris writing in the Times.
Who killed Cock Robin? Brexit has failed and the only question now is about the ownership of failure. Who wants the blame? In the end few will. Bravely, Jo Johnson yesterday joined those with the principle (and foresight) to say so. But the day is coming when it is those who did not jump ship who will look “brave”. That’s why I doubt Theresa May will get her deal through parliament. Hands up who wants their names printed under aye in the division list in Hansard after the “meaningful vote” on her deal? Who in two years’ time, as we look back on Britain’s ignominious humbling by the European Union, and the battle rages on about our future relationship, and every Brussels-bashing headline in the media reignites the argument about our “vassalage” . . . who wants still to be insisting we did the right thing on March 29, 2019?
That Brexit has failed is now virtually uncontested on either side. Serious Brexiteers within and outside the cabinet are united in their distaste for a deal that leaves the United Kingdom effectively a satellite of the EU. This humbling of one of the great powers, the world’s fifth-largest economy, is not what Leave meant when they campaigned for Britain’s exit; not their guiding vision of a free-wheeling, free-trading “global” Britain. For them there has only ever been one decent argument for swallowing their pride and signing up to this conjectured deal: that once we’re out of the EU we can tear it all up anyway. That is not going to happen. As the government’s legal advice will make clear, Britain will be treaty-bound (indeed, already is, by the Good Friday agreement) to this deal’s “vassalage”. So I absolutely share the Brexit hardliners’ understanding of what Mrs May’s deal will mean. It will be Brexit in name only, “Brino”. We’d be well and truly stuck. Humiliated. In limbo. There have to be at least a score of Tory backbenchers on the Leave side who could not put their names to this.
And Remainers? Dominic Grieve, the closest thing Tory Remainer MPs have to a leader, makes the same point: what does this variety of “soft” Brexit offer our country that we lack today? I know there to be more than a score of Tory backbench Remainers (and a few ministers too) who would be ashamed to see their names on that aye division list. Listen to Mrs May’s proposed deal as it unfolds. Listen to the caveats and exclusions and tortuously worded ambiguities. Listen (as Democratic Unionists now can when they read yesterday’s leak to The Times) to the strangled verbal formulations. And keep repeating this single question: “How is this better than just being in the EU on the terms negotiated by Margaret Thatcher and John Major?” Answer comes there none, nor ever will, because there is no answer and the prime minister knows it. She accepted the instruction to get the best deal available. But it isn’t any good.
So government whips will have their work cut out. Let’s look at the different arguments that in private conversations they’ll press upon Leaver and upon Remainer Tory MPs. The argument that Tory Leaver MPs know they’ll hear will be accompanied by a wink: “Look, we can always renege on this mush after March 29 next year, once we’re out”. That’s why suspicious Leavers are asking to see the legal advice. It will dismay them. The other argument is that if Mrs May’s deal falls at the fence of a Commons vote then we’d either “crash out without a deal” or end up with a new referendum or a general election. But the whips’ problem with such scenarios is that the first is (secretly) attractive to many true-believer Brexiteers, while another election or referendum, even if these knocked Brexit off today’s agenda, would leave their religion unsullied by compromise, and leave them unashamed to fight tomorrow.
ray hutstone likes this
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
Excellent article. Should be compulsive reading for the numpties who continue to turn their backs on reality.
