Guest 1881- Registered: 16 Oct 2016
- Posts: 1,071
Solution: Cross party committee to thrash out what is acceptable and what isn't for BREXIT. Where the best trade-offs are and what are the non-negotiables must haves/must not haves.
...but of course that could also have been offered without having to go to the ballot box on June 8th, or indeed calling the election.
There is plenty of talent across many of the parties that are endorsing BREXIT. Keir Starmer QC and David Davis are shrewd negotiators and understand process and legalities.
howard mcsweeney1 likes this
Just because you don't take an interest in politics doesn't mean that politics won't take an interest in you. PERICLES.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
The Bishop wrote:Solution: Cross party committee to thrash out what is acceptable and what isn't for BREXIT. Where the best trade-offs are and what are the non-negotiables must haves/must not haves.
...but of course that could also have been offered without having to go to the ballot box on June 8th, or indeed calling the election.
There is plenty of talent across many of the parties that are endorsing BREXIT. Keir Starmer QC and David Davis are shrewd negotiators and understand process and legalities.
Fully agree about it being a non party issue and they would be my choice of negotiators. Cruella has gone in for megaphone diplomacy so far which plays into Juncker's hands, Jezza would be out of his depth along with Boris. It looks very much like we will stay in the single market anyway but on the plus side we won't have to pay a massive fine for leaving.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,797
howard mcsweeney1 wrote:Even if someone can fully support themselves there is still a strain on public services, everyone needs a doctor, dentist school places for children and as we know all these things are currently under funded.
By supporting themselves I was including not using the "public services" like the NHS although I admit to forgetting schooling so would add that in.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Jan Higgins wrote:By supporting themselves I was including not using the "public services" like the NHS although I admit to forgetting schooling so would add that in.
The EU would never agree to that Jan, remember the furore when it was mooted that new arrivals go through a qualifying period before they can claim benefits and shock horror about not paying child benefit for kids that have never even been to this country?
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Ms Davidson making a surprise visit to Downing Street no doubt looking for a guarantee that we remain in the single market in order for her 13 MPs to prop up the Government.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ruth-davidson-theresa-may-cabinet-scottish-tory-leader-conservative-brexit-dup-a7785746.htmlhoward mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Bob Whysman likes this
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
From the Telegraph.
It would be difficult to imagine a more disastrous start to Britain’s negotiations to leave the European Union. A government without a majority, the two main parties committed to some form of “hard Brexit” (a term usually employed to describe our departure from the single market and customs union as well as from the EU itself) yet a supposed majority within the new Commons in favour of the opposite: a “soft” or “non” Brexit.
It would be easy – and entirely justified – to blame Theresa May for this latest farce. Let’s just take that as a given and move on to how we intend to shape the forthcoming discussions with our EU partners, most of whom, presumably, are watching events on this side of La Manche with incredulous glee. And who can blame them?
Today’s Telegraph splash will have sent a shiver down the spines of those Conservative MPs whose primary obsession in politics has been to extricate us from the EU. An ungodly alliance of pro-Remain Conservative MPs – including Cabinet ministers – and Labour MPs seek to water down Mrs May’s previous commitments to a hard Brexit, and to despatch her seemingly reckless (though as I have argued in the past, entirely sensible and necessary) threat to walk away from the negotiating table rather than accept a “bad deal”.
Just less than a year ago, I wrote of my astonishment that in the wake of a narrow victory by the Leave campaign, it was the Labour Party, not the Conservatives, that seemed to be falling apart at the seams. This was entirely contrary to the decades-long political narrative that held that it was the Tories under whom a deadly European fault line ran. But now, nearly a year later, these are ominous times for the party that took us into the Common Market and now wants to take us out.
Labour, on the other hand, is more united than it has been at any time since Jeremy Corbyn became leader and now has a ringside seat for the Great Conservative EU Implosion, part 22.
It is casually and confidently asserted that the recent election produced a House of Commons in which a majority of members oppose our leaving the EU altogether. This is probably true. However a slight complicating factor is that both the Conservative and Labour manifestos commit any government led by them to leave, not just the EU, but the single market too. It is, admittedly, less explicit in Labour’s, which merely states that “Freedom of movement will end when we leave the European Union”. But those seeking to interpret this in any other way than a commitment to leaving the single market would be hard pressed to explain how freedom of movement could end otherwise.
In other words, 88 per cent of MPs were elected on a manifesto commitment to leave the EU single market. Will this matter to Remain-supporting MPs on either side of the House? They might be forgiven for trying to slip out of their democratic mandate by pointing out that both Labour’s and the Conservatives’ manifestos were rejected by the electorate; parties generally don’t feel obliged to respect a losing mandate.
Bob Whysman
- Registered: 23 Aug 2013
- Posts: 1,932
I believe in the old adage 'when in a hole stop digging.' All this governmental twisting and turning is achieving nothing of benefit to anybody.
We can't even agree amongst ourselves; so as the negotiations to leave the EU have not started, why not approach our European 'friends' and eat humble pie. Ask to rescind/postpone our application to leave the EU and then cut out all the lofty personal aspirations of our politicians by having another general election now.
Whether we like it, or not, no cobbled together government is going to work long term and certainly won't enhance any Brexit outcome.
................Just saying.
Do nothing and nothing happens.
Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,295
As most of you know, I am a keen remainer and think the idea of leaving is bonkers. However, even I think it would be a poor show if Brexit were to not happen at all. That would be wrong and the public would quite rightly never trust politicians again, if indeed they ever did.
However, I think two things have happened recently to point towards a so called softer Brexit. The first, is the election result. Whatever the article in the Telegraph says - she pitched this as asking the people for a mandate for a so called hard Brexit. She didn't get it. That has totally muddied the water and the make up of Parliament clearly points to a more consensus based approach to negotiations.
The second thing is the total state of US politics. Things are absolutely off the chart bonkers in the States at the moment and to watch Trump govern by Twitter is absolutely horrifying and frankly, genuinely dangerous. It cannot have escaped the attention of the Government that the States, at the moment, cannot be relied upon for anything helpful and meaningful. As such, having a close alliance with 27 other EU countries, from a geopolitical standpoint, must be very appealing.
I think our strongest hand would be to send a cross party negotiating team to Europe - but a bloody good one. The moral authority of a cross party group would immediately blunt the Commission's attack that we are in chaos and would also protect both parties if it all fell to bits as there could be no finger pointing. We live in interesting times.
Guest 745- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
the bottom line is the EU want us to keep paying up,,, and business wants cheap labour.
the working class want out to stop the immigrant invasion and a pay rise.
The Torys core voters want us out,, the Labour party's core voters want us out.
if its membership by the back door, all the parties will pay the price.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
A year on from the Referendum not a single thing discussed with the EU which continues to hold the best cards. Election result aside there is no excuse for this dithering and looking at comments made by senior politicians and us lot on here the best thing we can do is pick the strongest negotiating team regardless of party affiliation.
The German finance minister today said he had been speaking to our Chancellor and stressed that if the UK decided to stay in the EU it would be no problem.
Weird Granny Slater
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 7 Jun 2017
- Posts: 3,002
The laughter must soon stop: and when the Labour Party’s leadership releases its grip on its aching sides, it would be provident to stay well away from any cross-party involvement in ‘Brexit’ discussions (whoever’s responsible for that neologism deserves all the awful things that will inevitably happen to him or her). It is to be hoped that the Tories will stay true to form and tear themselves apart over our relationship with the rest of Europe, and Labour will then emerge untainted to lead us all into an independent socialist paradise. As the former bishop of Hippo might not once have said, ‘Grant me Brexit, but not yet.’
'Pass the cow dung, my dropsy's killing me' - Heraclitus
Bob Whysman- Registered: 23 Aug 2013
- Posts: 1,932
Weird Granny Slater wrote:The laughter must soon stop: and when the Labour Party’s leadership releases its grip on its aching sides, it would be provident to stay well away from any cross-party involvement in ‘Brexit’ discussions (whoever’s responsible for that neologism deserves all the awful things that will inevitably happen to him or her). I[B]t is to be hoped that the Tories will stay true to form and tear themselves apart over our relationship with the rest of Europe, and Labour will then emerge untainted to lead us all into an independent socialist paradise. As the former bishop of Hippo might not once have said, ‘Grant me Brexit, but not yet.’
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I grant you WGS it's a different ending to the fiasco!
howard mcsweeney1 likes this
Do nothing and nothing happens.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
I have wondered what the result of no deal would be especially as we have not struck up or agreed in principle trade deals with other countries that was talked about prior to the Referendum.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-no-deal-privitisation-perfect-cover-for-tories-a7789141.htmlhoward mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
will it be like this then.
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Not very promising when both sides claim a different agenda.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40303761Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
not good then,= indesision.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Keir Starmer is of the view that we can stay in the customs union while still stopping freedom of movement if the negotiations are handled correctly but believes our team are going in at a disadvantage due to the way British politics is at this time with no effective Government.
Talks start tomorrow.
Button
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,027
Well, no other non-EU state has achieved that yet (and I assume we're talking freedom of movement of labour here); worth a shot I suppose but, given the range of issues to be sorted in less than 2 years, personally I'd spend all of 5 minutes on it.
(Not my real name.)