Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,865
Not quite what you stated in an earlier post where for some reason I shouldnt be informing people .
.like a lot of places we have life long labour supporters around here unwilling to vote .
As Sue says it's the Tories who get there vote out labour often struggles and with the open warfare in Dover labour those are other lost votes that coujd be a close vote .
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Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,698
That's not quite what I said but lets agree to differ on that
I think there are more and more people across the country that have been turned off politics (of all persuasions) by the pettiness, the bickering, the lieing, the infighting, the corruption etc. who are therefore choosing not to vote.
If it ends up a close vote then that is a vast improvement on the last election and, dare I say it, a vastly different result than you were suggesting only very recently
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Arthur- Registered: 18 Nov 2020
- Posts: 436
In Australia voting is compulsory- fined if you don’t vote. A good way to raise revenue!
But Ross is correct- a high proportion of the electorate have lost faith in politics and politicians because of their behaviour lack of morals and ethics.
It will take a very long time to recover from this malaise- it’s not confined to the UK, across the world people feel disillusioned, disenfranchised and dismissed as irrelevant as career politicians try to make a name for themselves and don’t care who gets left behind in the process.
I would dearly love to suggest that there’s a simple solution but it does fascinate me that we have a former comedian running Ukraine and I’m old enough to remember Lech Walesa - originally a shipyard electrician who became President of Poland. Ordinary people who have found themselves able to do extraordinary things.
Whilst we are hindered by groups who “select” our candidates we will always be stuck in the same rut.
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Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,865
Ross
My thoughts are the Tories will win again quite easily .
What should be happening is labour should be a lot closer .
Both localy and nationally but I don't think they will .
I have already many posts ago highlighted much the same reasons for this .
But Ross said it now so must be right Lol
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Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,698
I think that you may be right Keith, though I do think we will see a much bigger incident of tactical voting at the next election (whenever that may be) and even here in Dover that might just swing it against Elphicke.
The challenge for Starmer is that even before the, frankly, damning Foorde report he had managed to marginalise and alienate much of the traditional labour left and it will take a hell of a lot to get them to consider supporting a Labour Party with him at the helm. Perhaps the answer is a new leader before the GE, though I doubt the PLP & centre right factions will go with that. His only hope is that people do vote tactically to "get the tory out" and Labour end up as the largest party in a hung parliament.
P.S. you did point out much the same reasons for non voting as I did, I was just re-iterating...
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"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,865
Funny Ross you start from disagreeing to a point of agreeing but there we have it .
Locally labour is putting people (on the left ) under investigation to expell them .
So activists are having face book pages trawled to expell them .
This could help Naterlie back into her seat .
One thing I noticed in the past is that the more left are likely to be active .
Where as Starmers right wingers don't come out or active .
There will be tactical voting, but I think it's going to depend in Dover on the floating and non voting people ,which is a high number and could decide the seat !
Nationally think as iv said some time ago the red wall has to be pulled down and labour has to win these seats back and others .
Rightly or wrongly , or even if this is the general viewpoint, whilst people want the govt out, is this number big enough for people to vote large enough in numbers for Lab.
Many locals up NORF interviewed say they will vote Tory again feeling they have done more than labour over the short time they win the seats .
If our area is anything to go by, many just won't vote, having no confidence in the govt, or Lab.
That should be of concern to local lab, instead though it appears more important to engage in investigating locals that might mention Corbyn lol.
Look at trade unions where Starmer has told his MPs not to visit picket lines, that's fine , although wrong, but again that loses many trade unionists votes.
I think Labour will be the loser in all of this
But of course we will all be the biggest loser's .
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Captain Haddock
- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,981
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,698
The SWP is well off to the fringes of the extreme left and currently numbers somewhere in the region of 2,000 or so misguided souls as members, they are pretty well motivated and active and produce one of the more hilarious far left rags as seen in your pic above.
Few, other than their own members, take them or their rag seriously
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
Ross Miller wrote:The SWP is well off to the fringes of the extreme left and currently numbers somewhere in the region of 2,000 or so misguided souls as members, they are pretty well motivated and active and produce one of the more hilarious far left rags as seen in your pic above.
Few, other than their own members, take them or their rag seriously
On this forum only the Captain.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,865
Thing is Labour needs to win Dover .
Also a fair number of the seats up north .
Listening to people in those areas it appears there not going to .
Our MP should lose by thousands but with labour expelling its own members it's unlikely labour will even come close
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Paul Watkins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 9 Nov 2011
- Posts: 2,226
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,981
Tks Paul! What a laugh, they just can't help it, fighting like ferrets in a sack AFTER the vote has been taken.
Signed by 11 senior figures in Dover Labour party?
I can only think of 5 who don't use a cross or a thumbprint......
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 6,020
I have been following this chap .Seemed ok.Why do our local Labour Party fall out so often?I thought Mike Tapp would stand a chance against Our current MP.Interesting times.Instead of falling out with each other why don’t they get their act together?
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,820
Democracy reigns except when these local Labour Party Executives do not like the result, maybe they are the reason the recent candidates could not get elected as MP.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,865
It would be interesting to see who those complaining are .
Of course some of them as Bob says have an interest in the outcome .
Regional and national labour parties don't change there mind so I think he will be the candidate .
I just don't think he will get the MP out
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Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 6,020
We shall see
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,820
Although he did not catch the name it sounds as if someone I know met Mr Tapp this morning near the train station. He said he was nice, sounded well educated, talked sense and had a lovely dog with him, overall he made a very good impression.
Maybe the local executive do not realise it will need someone with brains and especially a strong personality to beat Natalie and win Dover, either that or maybe they feel intimidated.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 6,020
Yes Jan that is correct.I have listened to his videos.Very well spoken and educated.Not to be confused with Charlie Boy.The kind of person that people like you and I could relate too.Middle of the road socialist I would say .I get the impression he understands that Dover and Deal is a mixed bag.Areas of deprivation and those with larger houses worked for not hand down by wealthy parents .This chap will understand we have some very good educational facilities .We need to look after our young people two of mine well educated living locally the girl lives away but is a community person. In our town we do have one or two Labour Councillors very hard working .The same with some of the Conservatives .Its when they get brain washed I cringe.
Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,298
Both the Tories and Labour need to stop worrying so much about what the membership want. The membership is a distraction; it's voters that get you into number ten. Start listening to them.
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Paul Watkins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 9 Nov 2011
- Posts: 2,226
You involved in the selection Neil?
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
