howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
It seems likely that N. Ireland could stay in the customs union and single market without being in the EU but I reckon the DUP and other loyalists will see this a first step towards a united Ireland.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42217735Captain Haddock
- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,939
Whilst still waiting for the details, there will be a certain irony if Northern Ireland,who voted to remain,gets all of the regulation of the EU and none of the benefits of Brexit!
Looking positively IF it's possible to have a land border between two sovereign states which people can trade across without having a bloody great wall manned by jobsworths, checking everything that goes through it, and a load of local lunatics taking up arms over some perceived historic slight, then what's not to like.
Oh hang on. That's what most land borders are like nowadays.
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
[QUOTE="Captain Haddock"]Whilst still waiting for the details, there will be a certain irony if Northern Ireland,who voted to remain,gets all of the regulation of the EU and none of the benefits of Brexit!
well that's a positive for a start.
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,939
Perhaps it's time to offer the same arrangement to that miserable Krankie woman and her whining Jockanese followers?
BTW, If Northern Ireland is going to become Norway, can I put a request in for Dover to become the Bahamas?
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,295
I wonder if NI staying in the customs union is the first step towards the whole of the U.K. Staying in the customs union. So she boxes people in, with the hard line Brexiteers pressured into having to choose between their hard Brexit ideology and the risk of chaos in Ireland, or, accepting the Customs Union is the price to pay for realizing their dream.
This is either very clever, or stupid. I can't work out which yet.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Ms Sturgeon has already jumped the gun and demanded that Scotland stay in the single market if N. Ireland does. Sadiq Khan now wants a similar deal for London, whether that means London boroughs or post codes is not clear.
Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,295
Further, I do not for one minute think she would risk having to placate with London, Wales and Scotland if/when similar requests come in, if there is any suggestion NI will be different from the rest of the U.K.
Notice Arlene Foster is saying their will be no regulatory divergence from the rest of the U.K., so maybe she knows we are all going to be in the customs union. That's my theory anyway!
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,939
FWIW I think it's pedantry time coming up. There is of course (cough cough) a huge difference between staying in A customs union and THE Customs Union!
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,939
Good God! Just seen Arlene Foster on TV making a statement.
She's let herself go since those Hot Gossip days.
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"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Button
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,028
There is, or at least has been to date, indeed a difference between The EU Customs Union and A customs union with the EU. As Mr McS will no doubt the confirm, the former means no customs declarations other than post-event statistical ones (imports and exports being known as arrivals and despatches). The latter, however, does require import and export declarations - and trade with Turkey is a mainstay of Motis.
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(Not my real name.)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
The question here is why the PM ever thought the DUP would agree to the plan in the first place.
Cruella could have continued but clinging onto power overrode any principles.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42217735Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,295
Remind me, does agreeing to THE customs union bring with it a requirement to adhere to free movement rules? If it does not, then surely everyone (leave and remain) would accept that as the least worst scenario?
Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,028
I'm going to say: yes, it does bring that requirement. 6 months ago I would've said 'beyond a shadow of a doubt'; now I've slipped to 'beyond a reasonable doubt'. I wasn't aware, back then, that the DDR was apparently allowed to trade "locally" with the then West Germany as if it was in The Customs Union but without free movement. Mr Barrington also caught me out on places like the Channel Islands. So I'm not 100% positive, but I'd still wager a modest sum on 'yes'.
Note that either Customs Union means a common (protective) external tariff, whereas a Free Trade Agreement does not. The EFTA States, for example, are not obliged by their FTA with the EU to copy the EU's tariff barrier on imports of, say, Israeli oranges, and of course there is no Scandinavian orange-growing industry to protect.
(Not my real name.)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Speaking of Oranges their spokespersons in the Province ain't having any of it, something Cruella and her cohorts seemed to be blissfully unaware of.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
sour lemons howard.
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,939
Meanwhile, in the Shadow Cabinet red corner:-
John McDonnell: we must leave the single market to respect the referendum result
Tom Watson: we should stay in the single market and customs union permanently
Jon Ashworth, Jenny Chapman: we have to leave the single market
Diane Abbott: we should keep freedom of movement
Jeremy Corbyn, Keir Starmer: freedom of movement ends with Brexit
Barry Gardiner: staying in the customs union would be a disaster
Corbyn: whipped vote against single market and customs union membership
Starmer: we should stay in the single market and customs union (which means keeping free movement)
And people say the Tories are all over the place!
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Never really been a big issue in the Labour party with the 1983 manifesto saying that we would leave the EEC full stop, the left mainly for leaving the right for staying. Not a subject that has caused major rifts unlike the Tories who spit bile at each other over it and may well be the cause of them losing power next year.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Courtesy of the Telegraph
Theresa May is facing a Cabinet revolt after Brexiteers led by Boris Johnson and Michael Gove expressed “genuine fear” the Prime Minister is trying to force through a soft Brexit.
Mrs May was accused of trying to “bounce” the Cabinet into agreeing to “regulatory alignment” between Ulster and Ireland after it emerged she did not brief senior ministers before talks in Brussels on Monday that stalled over the controversial issue. David Davis, the Brexit Secretary, said that any alignment between the north and south in Ireland would apply to the whole of the UK, which Leave supporters interpreted as Britain remaining yoked to the EU. One Cabinet source said: “It seems that either Northern Ireland is splitting from the rest of the UK or we are headed for high alignment with the EU, which certainly hasn’t been agreed by Cabinet.
Hammond, the Chancellor, used a speech to City businessmen to say that “We want to protect our existing trading relationships with the EU”, and added: “No existing trade agreement, nor third-country access to the EU, could support the scale and complexity of reciprocal trade in financial services that exists between the UK and the EU.” Meanwhile Mrs May was dealt a serious blow by the DUP, as sources in Belfast said “radical work” was needed on the text which would take “several days”.
Arlene Foster, the leader of the DUP, said she only saw the text of the proposed agreement on Britain’s withdrawal from the EU late on Monday morning when Mrs May was already in Brussels – and that its wording came as “a shock”.
Mrs May now faces one of the biggest battles of her career to salvage the deal after Cabinet ministers, the DUP and the Irish government all suggested she had gone behind their backs.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
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Weird Granny Slater
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 7 Jun 2017
- Posts: 3,003
So the impact assessments don't exist after all:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42249854
And neither do ghosts or fairies or unicorns or compassionate conservatives or Father Christmas.
And neither did Molière or Joe Orton.
That that is is that that is not is not is that it it is.
Pleased that's clear now.
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'Pass the cow dung, my dropsy's killing me' - Heraclitus
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