Captain Haddock
- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,980
London young labour calling for the eradication of Israel.
Going well, isn't it?
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
#522, intresting artical.
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,980
Brian Dixon wrote:#522, intresting artical.
Par for the course. They just can't help it.
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
mmmmmmm yes the snowflake generation.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,865
I find it quite amazing how a Labour leader can go behind 17 points on Boris, and all that's going on with the conservatives .
At the National level it appears that whatever your views on Israel , unless your speaking up for the Israel Govt, your a racist and suspended or kicked out.
What happened to the broad church labour says it's membership is made up of?.
Starmer often comes across as the poodle of the Govt
And business , worrying more about affecting his route to number 10 than what's best for the country .
Starmer often picks the wrong arguments to take Boris on, good example was the decoration of number of 10, whilst there should be accountability , the contracts given out to friends of the conservatives were a lot higher and yet very quiet on this, yet went into the election on the redecoration of number 10 which people won't so interested in.
The election recently didn't see Starmer on the front foot , instead all the talk was about would he hold Hartlepool , and how many seats would he hold .
Scotland , where they used to hold govt seats and be close in seats to the SNP has all but dwindled away .
I suppose lessons can be learnt from Wales and places like Manchester .
But even when you get down to the local level
Labour lost Ex mining area Mill Hill where they used to weigh the labour votes they had so many ,
And also again lost the safe labour seat of St Rads.
I think Labour needs to wake up and smell the coffee, people are changing.
Either not voting at all , or switching votes .
If you look around at election not one leaflet from the party reached us in many areas , and very little activity from any party
But quite clear the conservatives continued to vote
Whilst labour struggled .
We are not in a good position now with a one party state , and a very poor opposition ,
With Starmer looking more and more that he isn't going to carry the people
K
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Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 6,020
Keith they were advised not to canvass.I think some were wary of delivering leaflets .
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,819
All parties but especially Labour seem to be so blinkered in their actions. They forget the majority of the public are better informed than ever so can see the way they seem to operate. Maybe they also rely far to much on their past as highlighted by Keith's example of Mill Hill ex miners who quite possibly no longer even live there.
As for Ray's comment #521, I was talking about new candidates rather than those many career MPs of all parties we are already stuck with.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Reginald Barrington
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 17 Dec 2014
- Posts: 3,235
Jan Higgins wrote:
As for Ray's comment #521, I was talking about new candidates rather than those many career MPs of all parties we are already stuck with.
Is that why you used the verb 'Get'?
Arte et Marte
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,865
Jan
I think your missing my point .
Indeed the mill hill is ever changing and yes no longer a mining area
But I'm sure the conservatives didn't expect to win that one.
My point being times have changed , but labour don't appear to have adapted .
But the Tories continue turning out
Even if they have no idea who the candidate is !!!
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Button
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,032
So, irrelevant even as a protest vote?
Full by-election results 17 June 2021
Sarah Green (Liberal Democrat): 21,517
Peter Fleet (Conservative): 13,489
Carolyne Culver (Green Party): 1,480
Natasa Pantelic (Labour): 622
Alex Wilson (Reform UK): 414
Carla Gregory (Breakthrough Party): 197
Adrian Oliver (Freedom Alliance): 134
Brendan Donnelly (Rejoin EU): 101
Lib Dem majority: 8,028
Turnout: 52% (37,954)
(Not my real name.)
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,865
I think that result shocked most people .
Certainly the Tories were rocked by it ..
Just shows politics is a funny game and becoming more and more unpredictable each day .
Labours red wall has all but gone
Now the Tories blue wall is seeing cracks .
Long term is always a problem for lib Dems they tend to do well then fall away .
I recall on DDC the lib Dems gained loads of seats (when our Sue was with them) but they slowly lost them all and we haven't seen a lib dem cllr on DDC for many years .
Getting back to labour though , I hope that at some point we will see a labour party fighting not only to regain the support its lost in its own old solid seats but also marginal seats .
Without that we are stuck with this govt and no real opposition
But labour appears to want to destroy itself and not really be the voice it was formed to be .
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Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,819
The LibDems have always been the choice of the protest vote and except for when there is a really good candidate they probably always will be, similar for the Greens.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Button- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,032
Rather a lot of protesters!
(Not my real name.)
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,865
Maybe one day both of the two major parties will recognise that no longer will they be taken for granted.
I used to visit Llanelli South Wales on a regular basis , over the years they weighed the labour vote lol
Tories didn't even bother to stand
Labour cllrs were elected unopposed .
But slowly over the years a couple of independents were elected , and labour were opposed in all the seats and they got to a stage of equal number of cllrs !!
Purely because labour took the electorate for granted in its heartland
People have switched off politics .
Without doubt this lib dem result wasn't expected I suspect even by the lib Dems themselves .
They tend to win then lose them at next general election .
Lib Dems are also very good at not having any policies , or they do, but on the doorstep and more locally all the policies go out the window and they settle for local issues against there national party .
I think it's time the main two parties woke up and smelt the coffee.
With the ex Tory speaker of the house defecting to labour and saying Starmer a great leader says it all
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Neil Moors- Registered: 3 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,298
Labour, Lib Dems and the Greens need to work together - it's the only way to overturn the majority. Look at the alliance in Israel - bonkers, but it did the trick.
In chasing the red wall, Johnson might just have left the back door open in his own yard, certainly the C&A result suggests so and that needs exploiting!
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Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,865
Neil
Whilst I want this govt out , you need to have a credible alternative .
Labour has in the main lost its passion as to why it was set up, and who it actual supports .
When working class can bring themselves to vote Tory there has to be something wrong .
Instead of Starmer expelling his own members purely for having an alternative view , and parachuting in candidates without any say of the local membership shows that labour isn't fit to govern .
Labours old views that it is a broad church has gone
It's spending more time infighting than taking on the govt .
Before getting into working with other minority parties it needs to get its own act in order .
.some years down the line (if that happens at all)
Then maybe consider working with other minority parties.
But that is also a problem area as the parties you mention are quite different and some couldn't be trusted , and you recall the lib Dems last time this was looked into preferred to put the Tories into govt and then even joined them!
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ray hutstone- Registered: 1 Apr 2018
- Posts: 2,158
This is off topic by any strict definition but much more relevant given the current situation.
This is from Brian Moore and offered here for comment:-
Tory followers - What degree of law-breaking, rule-breaking, dishonesty, deceit, cronyism, nepotism, incompetence, bullying, conflict of interest or waste of tax-payers money would be enough for you to not support this Govt?
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Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,865
I think it's a bit bigger than that .
I'm aware of left wing union people voting Tory as they lost all faith in labour
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Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
torys in disaray yet again,anothrer mp resigns. history repeating it's self again.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,865
Thing is Brian it's been explained so many times and you have still to grasp it.
The main opposition is no better .
Starmer doesn't like some of his members so rather than talk to them he expels them .
He parachutes candidates in giving no choice to local members against all democracy .
Brings back vote loser mandelson.
I think it's time now to look at alternatives
Labours not going to be number 10 for many years to come , whether it be protest votes at this time , labour must start to regain the trust of its own members , and the country at large .
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"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"