EU Referendum
- Reginald Barrington
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 17 Dec 2014
- Posts: 3,227
25 June 2016 08:53315089Had that discussion with our daughter ,she gets that she can't complain about the result because she didn't vote but concludes it isn't right!
Perhaps it's a good thing we have taken away their future if they can't be trusted with it!
Oh to be young again.Arte et Marte - Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
25 June 2016 08:54315090 - Reginald Barrington
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 17 Dec 2014
- Posts: 3,227
25 June 2016 09:20315091When they get over 17 410 742 signatures then maybe they would consider it.Bob Whysman likes thisArte et Marte - 25 June 2016 11:13315094I think what could happen is,as Mr Cameron was not going to stand again as leader and P.M. next time round,he has told his party,"Look I will stand down and after you have a new leader and PM you can aske me to do all the talking and dealing with the EU about the UK withdraw from the EU block after all no one knows more about it then him,and I think he would be the man for the job.
- 25 June 2016 11:30315097Cameron has already said that he will not do it so whoever is next leader has to take it on in 3 months time. The problem is that the EU are demanding talks start straight away.
- Bob Whysman
- Registered: 23 Aug 2013
- Posts: 1,932
25 June 2016 11:42315098Brian Dixon wrote:
We could have the best of 3 referendums and let all the EU members cast a vote!
The EU 's biggest problem has been their demanding attitude Howard. If they want us out that quick why don't they refuse to accept our money and throw us out for default of payments.
Err......A bit unfair Mr Watkins to assume that the younger generation don't care as they had more important places to go than polling stations.......Glastonbury is where it was all happening this week-end.
Being unemployed was useful too as some didn't have to take time off work either to go to Glastonbury.
Do nothing and nothing happens. - 25 June 2016 11:55315099They do not work from 0700hrs till 2200hrs.
- Bob Whysman
- Registered: 23 Aug 2013
- Posts: 1,932
25 June 2016 19:10315119PatrickS wrote:Perhaps it is now time to bring European Nations that are also considering OUT to come together in a new free trading area. Just off the top of my head, as a completely new and innovative idea, we could call it EFTA.
That's a start PatrickS, but it looks like some EU members want to play dirty so perhaps we should consider whether it would be beneficial for us to do some EU sanction busting trading!
................now I wonder who we should start with?!
Do nothing and nothing happens. - 25 June 2016 19:49315123Things are turning nasty now with sore losers pulling stunts. 2 million people signing a petition for a new referendum and a massive protest about the result in Central London tomorrow with MP David Lammy pointing out that the referendum was purely advisory and the commons are able to overturn the result.
All this has shades of the Scottish independence referendum where there is still a lot of hard feelings and I believe the same will linger here. - Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,695
25 June 2016 20:13315124I do not think the things you mention are nasty, sour grapes perhaps, pointless most likely, nasty not really.
Indeed referenda are not legally binding in the UK, however given the turnout one would be foolhardy, arrogant or both to ignore it.
Whilst I am concerned at the flexible view of democratic votes held by this government (in a trade union strike ballot you must get 50%+1 of the eligible electorate as opposed to 50%+1 of those who vote - cannot see any acceptable justification for the difference), I believe we need to bury our differences and try our damnedest to make this work. There is no longer a "them and us", it really is now just us all in for the ride together. All of us irrespective of how we voted need to ensure our politicians are held to account and get the best deal possible for the country.
If we cannot bury these differences, the fracture lines in our society will only widen and lead to more and more of what have seen today, what is proposed for Monday etc.Alec Sheldon, Bob Whysman and howard mcsweeney1 like this"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi - 25 June 2016 20:56315128It was a terrible result in terms of highlighting clear differences. Young vs. Old; Rich vs. not rich; Towns vs. Cities. I can see a bit of a Spanish situation developing whereby London takes the view similar to that of Barcelona; who are the people of Sunderland and Nuneaton to send the City crashing. The reverse view of course is that the City brought the country crashing down in 2008.
In terms of what we do know, Scotland's calls for a second referendum are absolutely justified in my view - the only reason not to do it is because the price of oil has tanked since and you would have to do the numbers all over again. Of course, that may be offset by remaining part of the EU.
I appear to be in a minority of one here, but I don't think Boris will have the balls for this - I am convinced the plan was to lose narrowly, not actually go and win the thing - close enough to trigger a leadership challenge though. Think about it, as former Mayor of London and with all his mates in the City, surely it would have gone against his natural instinct to vote out.howard mcsweeney1 likes this - Bob Whysman
- Registered: 23 Aug 2013
- Posts: 1,932
25 June 2016 21:45315132The way forward Neil has got to be everyone pulling together to make Brexit work. This is not going to happen until all the hysteria and the 'them and us' infighting subsides.
As for the choice of a new Prime Minister, that is a difficult one as a strong potential leader seems to be lacking within any Party.
As for a Scottish referendum for independence, I'm sure this will come about as it is Nicola Sturgeon's lifetime ambition to make this happen. If they vote leave the UK, then the financial aspect of a fully independent Scotland will present another conundrum, along with the necessary exclusion of Scottish MP's in the Westminster Parliament.
The future looks more complicated by the day but it can all be resolved with the right person at the helm.
Do nothing and nothing happens.Do nothing and nothing happens. - 26 June 2016 16:25315151This could drag on for years.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/26/who-will-dare-pull-trigger-article-50-eu - 26 June 2016 18:57315155Some thickos misinterpreting the vote although I don't think the campaign is the cause.
http://news.sky.com/story/1717862/police-probe-post-brexit-attacks-on-poles - PatrickS
- Location: Marine Parade, Dover
- Registered: 19 Sep 2015
- Posts: 448
26 June 2016 22:43315160Ross Miller wrote:
If we cannot bury these differences, the fracture lines in our society will only widen and lead to more and more of what have seen today, what is proposed for Monday etc.
Quite right. Sadly, inevitably, in high level politics there will always be fractures, both open and from behind closed doors.
Leaving aside any political bias on either side of the BREXIT or PARTY divides one thing is crystal clear in my mind. David Cameron called the referendum, declaring, as Prime Minister, he would respect and be bound by the result, and carry it out. He was right to try to negotiate a better deal within the EU and right to put that deal to the people. Having then stated his preference to REMAIN, he should have left campaigning to others in order to comply with his earlier stated position. He made, as it turned out, a fatal and terminal mistake by not doing so.
Nevertheless some areas of the political scene have not changed. Cameron remains PM for the time being and the Conservative Party continues to govern this Country. It has a full mandate to continue the business of government, representing all our citizens, and this Country in matters abroad. Scotland, Wales & N. Ireland continue to be part of the UK and, like it or not, and irrespective of the way they voted on 23 June, they, like the rest of us, including Tonbridge Wells and all the other regions that voted REMAIN, should accept the majority decision in good grace. Not to do so would deny the very essence of the democracy that we cherish so dearly.
I can see no reasonable argument on behalf of anyone who, out of free choice, did not vote, to complain about the result. Reg, #461 couldn't have put it better. The question as to why some were turned off from voting would take up as many pages as the EU directive on pork pies.
Cameron should not have gone. He should have stood by his initial stance - accepting and implementing the decision of the British people - instead of passing the helm ('Captain of the Ship') to a new leader. This is total abrogation on his part whatever his preferred view of the outcome.
Because of that decision there is an unnecessary void that only makes the path to BREXIT more difficult than it would otherwise have been.
Few will be surprised at the repercussions and uncertainties that followed last Thursday's vote. Many would now like to see a calmer, less confrontational view of the way forward.
Let us hope that a sense of political proportion is restored and we - all of us in England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Gibraltar - pull together to show the rest of the World that we are one, we are, and remain, GREAT BRITAIN and NORTHERN IRELAND.
To do that means the views of those outside of Westminster and London, must be listened to and not ignored; particularly those in Scotland whom we must convince, by deed as well as words, that they are just as important, just as much needed and respected within the UK, as the rest of us.howard mcsweeney1 likes this - 26 June 2016 23:10315161We don't have to convince Scotland of anything. They decided in a democratic manner that they would prefer to remain part of the United Kingdom so what's the issue now? Why should we treat Scotland any differently to the good people of Tunbridge Wells? The UK has made a decision we all need to accept it, deal with it and work together to make things better for the future.
- 27 June 2016 04:14315162Just read with interest Boris's Telegraph column. Very measured and conciliatory; indeed, my reading of it is that free movement will remain - as he talks about freeing us of Brussels' law only and that nothing will change, that Brits will be be able to continue to live, work and remain within the EU and vice versa. That is free movement.
So, in a continuation of my logic from my previous post - having accidentally won Brexit, Boris will now look to limit its impact almost entirely. If he gets away with that, could be very smart.howard mcsweeney1 likes this - 27 June 2016 11:18315169There are demands for a new Referendum over misleading promises from the eventual winners but both sides were guilty. Remember George with his tax rises and spending cuts in a post Brexit budget?
Today he announces that won't happen. - 27 June 2016 19:47315188Just heard that some "entrepreneurs" have set up a website selling passports as the current ones are invalid after the vote and panicky holiday makers are paying up - one born every minute.
- 28 June 2016 19:49315204After reading shed loads of online press stuff and some interesting posts here I agree with the bloke that penned this article. First thing I noticed on Friday was the apparent absence or low key style of Johnson and Gove with Farage being the main player. As we know "call me Dave" pulled a master stroke by passing the poisoned chalice to his successor who will be vilified by any short term woes. The tousled Boris is now saying that the single market will remain together with free movement of labour which has clearly Nigel annoyed whose supporters want to stop that and send back those already here.
The EU are demanding that we invoke Article 50 immediately if not sooner because they want to move things along but also they are enjoying us as a nation look rather silly.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-wont-really-happen-second-referendum-markets-value-housing-pound-a7106996.html